What have peoples experiences been with grey market Leica equipment? I am a student that is in the market for a user M2, but would like to put a new lens on it - hopefully the 35 Summicron.

I have noticed that I can save quite a bit by buying from Delta International and others, but is there a quality difference? The warranty doesn't seem to concern me so much with lenses - should it?

If anyone has links to previous posts regarding this topic they would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

-- Nick Hillyer (nhillyer@fhcrc.org), March 02, 2002

Answers

Grey market equipment is less expensive but you lose the three year (or for an additional $75 the five year) USA warranty. Inevitably, you will have something go awry and you will have to send it in, either free of charge if you have the warranty or for $$ if you don't. The equipment is the same, the price differential just represents the extra risk you are or are not willing to take.

-- Albert Knapp MD (albertknappmd@mac.com), March 02, 2002.

The previous poster pretty much said it all.

Personally, I think gray is worth the savings for lenses and not worth saving the differential for bodies.

I mean really, what is there to go wrong with an M lens that works fine out of the box?

And if it doesn't work fine out of the box, Delta will exchange it for you. It is a completely reputable company.

-- Rolfe Tessem (rolfe@ldp.com), March 02, 2002.

Agreed. Grey lenses and USA waranteed bodies. Even more important with the electronic cameras. Some companies don't even like to service grey market items even if you pay them.

-- Phil Stiles (stiles@metrocast.net), March 02, 2002.

Leica USA will honor the international warranty, but in order to obtain that you have to have bought the camera/lens from an *authorized* Leica dealer somewhere on this planet. In the recent past I have known of people who bought directly from authorized Leica dealers in Hongkong at cheaper prices than US graymarketers, *and* had the warranty.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), March 02, 2002.

Absolutely, I bought an M6 in Hong Kong in 1988 when I was living in Japan;amd then had it fixed twice by Leica USA when I was living in the States. As I understand it, the Leica guarantee is worldwide. The US Passport gurantantee, as I understand it, has a more extended coverage in terms of time and scope but, in my view, is not worth the much higher price. [Incidentally, having to have the M6 fixed twice (for viewfinder alignment) doesn't speak much for Leica reliability or quality control.

-- Mitch Alland/Bangkok (malland@mac.com), March 02, 2002.

Nick:

I agree with the bulk of the previous posts. USA Passport on bodies and grey on lenses. I have purchased 3 new lenses in 30 years with no problems. I new body, with problems fixed under Passport warranty.

Save the money and buy film and processing to enjoy the new lens with, but it is your choice.

-- Mark A. Johnson (logical1@catholic.org), March 02, 2002.

I've never had a problem with a gray market body or lens, within warranty time limits that is, but I agree there's more risk with the bodies - just plain more to go wrong, esp with electronics. Delta Int'l is a good source in any case.

-- Ken Shipman (kennyshipman@aol.com), March 02, 2002.

Grey market Leica cameras and lenses are identical to the official ones. There is no such thing as a second class Leica.

The definitive answer is that if you buy an officially imported Leica product from an authorised Leica dealer any where in the world, the local agent in your country will repair it under warranty. If you buy a grey market camera or lens, however, the local agent will generally refuse to repair it under warranty, or will charge you for the work. Provided you have the guarantee card properly stamped and proof of purchase, then any warranty repair will be carried out by Leica in Germany at no charge.

All new Leica have the guarantee card and only unscrupulous dealers remove it. If you buy one without the card, then you have no guarantee whatever.

-- wayne murphy (wmurphy@powerup.com.au), March 02, 2002.

I to will concur with the bulk of the previous posters (ie USA bodies, grey lenses) with one caveat.

That being the Tri-Elmar. Lottsa mechanical things going on inside that lens. International warranty aside, my comfort level would be higher there with USA. Think I would even get the 2 years extension.

Best,

Jerry

-- Jerome R. Pfile, Jr. (JerryPfile@msn.com), March 02, 2002.

When a Leica is bought in Hong Kong, what about US Customs? Is there not an import fee?

-- Frank Horn (owlhoot45@hotmail.com), March 03, 2002.

I have bought gray market with no problems (I usually buy from a reliable Leica dealer like Don Chatterton or Jim Keuhl). I think you take a small chance that the item is not perfect, but usually it is, and you save hundreds of dollars. Some dealers (like Stam Tamarkin) offer you their own warranty for a period of time if the gray market item is defective. All I can say is that I have not been burned (yet) by buying gray market, and the savings have been significant.

I probably would not recommend this if we were talking about a high tech auto everything camera, or a lens with AF motor, auto-diaphragm, and built in gyroscopes. Too much to go wrong. But for Leica M, the risk/benefit ratio is more favorable for gray market.

I do also buy new USA, so I have gone both ways. As Clint Eastwood said in one of his movies, you have to ask yourself the question: "Do I feel lucky?".

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), March 03, 2002.

I bought 2 M6ttl’s (.58 and .85) and 2 lenses (35 Summicron-M and 90 Elmarit-M) from Delta International (grey market) last year. So far I have no problem yet.

-- Hung Huynh (hungqhuynh@hotmail.com), March 04, 2002.