I need your help out there. i have searched the threads, but haven't found the answers to my questions.

I looked at the 803 Satchel and liked it but am concerned about a few things. 1. The one insert doens't seem enough for my M6 body, Sf20, 35 Lux Apsh and 90 Apo. Do you add other compartments, or do you put the lenses in their original cases? 2. It doesn't seem very well padded. If I was to drop the bag with my gear without cases, would my gear be damaged? 3. Is there an equivelent of better bag. I already own a Lowepro S&F Reporter 100 bag that is excellent. But I wanted a bag that doens't look like a camera bag. I like the Billingham Alice or Hadley, but they also look like a camera bag, just old ones.

Please advise.

-- kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 02, 2002

Answers

Also If I was to go for the Hadley or Alice, what are differences in size, weight etc. Where is the best place to buy?

Anyone wanting to sell any bags?

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 02, 2002.

Buy more inserts, I love my J3 bag and it has enough protection. The Extra inserts will help, I believe they sell them 2 per pack. I also thought of the hadley, but went against it in the end, too much like an expensive camera bag, the Domke is low key and black, the name tag is dk green, no big signs of whats it is. I never regretted my bag once in the year and a half since I own it. I can manipulate it to my needs, I even take my Bronica SQA with me in it from time to time.

-- mike (thearea19@aol.com), March 02, 2002.

the insert is deep enough to house two lenses, but i keep mine in small leather bags. the original leica ones are too bulky and difficult to maneuvre single handed. you find tokina ones pretty often in used-camera shops for next to nothing. the sf-20 goes into one of the front pockets, the m6 with one lens attached is well protected in the rest of the main compartment, but if you are concerned, buy a second insert, with the lux it is a very tight fit.

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), March 02, 2002.

Buy AT B&H in NY, they are best for items as such, stay away from ebay where these bags go for 80-90% of the new B&H price.

-- mike (thearea19@aol.com), March 02, 2002.

Have you looked at the J803 satchel? It is a bit more padded, I feel (I own it).

If you mount your lenses back to back using two rear lens caps epoxy glued together they will go into the insert.

This is how I use it - Body with lens in main compartment, two lenses back to back as above in the insert, another lens or the SF 20 on the far side of the insert in the main compartment.

The J803 is deceptive. There is actually plenty of space left over with a kit such as this, certainly room for travel papers, cell phone, calculator, light meter, 20-30 rolls of film, cleaning stuff, batteries, and (if you are like me, willing to seriously overstuff it) a change of clothes.

You don't believe me. But I've carried clothing, papers, camera kit as described above, personal toiletries and medicine, cell phone and kit as above, and travel papers all in an overstuffed J-803. Enough, in fact, for a two night stay in Cambodia. I dumped all but the camera kit in the hotel room after check in and used the camera kit in the camera bag.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), March 02, 2002.

The 3 compartment insert for the 803 holds M + 50/2, M + 32/2 and 90/2.8 and 28/2.8 mounted back to back. My stuff is generally the smallish versions of the lenses when a choice was avalible (price was also a consideration) (non asp 35, tele-elmarit 90)

For mounting lenses back to back I USE GLUED LEICA REAR CAPS, NOT THE GREY OR BLACK COUPLER RING. The rear elements of just about any wide angle of 28mm or shorter if joined with a 50 or shorter lens in the leica coupler has the serious potential of bashing the rear elements together. The 90 will couple with about any lens as the rear element is very recessed but in the course of photographing I could easily change the 35 for a 90, couple the 35 to the 28 and be very unhappy, using epoxied rear lens caps solves this issue).

I stuck an additional piece of foam below the insert, on the bottom to give a bit more foam padding. I also fasioned a drawstring nylon bag out of a sleeping bag stuff sack and with added velcro can velcro the sack in the 803 and the insert into the sack. This allows me to seal the contents of the bag from dust, water if needed. (I got this idea from looking at a Billingham catalog, they make and sell a similar sack for the inside of some of their bags). I can use this setup for photography but commonly I use this 3 compartment insert/sack for traveling and will bring along the original single insert and will, for day trips just use the original insert in the middle of the bag with the lenses in it and stick the 2M's on each side without the extra padding or the nylon sack, The bag hangs better.

I will also leave much of what I may have brought on a trip in the 803 in a safe place and just use a smaller bag (A tamrac Expo 1) for one M and 2 lenses for when I am mostly a tourist. At home, I really only use the Expo 1 and an M with 2 lenses for most of my ramblings.

I have not found that any one set up works for me. I like a bit of padding and security when the goal is transportation to a destination but like to have less bulk and equipment when photographing. Bringing a smaller extra bag (filled with socks and stuck in a suitcase) and an extra insert along on a trip gives me a number of options. I also usually use a small dayback for a carryon and have many times stuck the Expo bag in it with a coat and snacks if the opportunity for a hike/walk comes along and I don't want a shoulder bag.

Hope this helps a bit.

Robert

-- Robert Ardinger (rardinger@kc.rr.comr), March 02, 2002.

Ditto what the others have said about the j803. It looks small, but is surpisingly roomy and you can get your M in and out of it easily without a loud velcro "rrriiippp!" There are bags that are bombproof, but you tend not to carry them because of their bulk and in the end you'll end up just taking stuff out and leaving the bag in the trunk of your car. The j803 let's you carry what you need comfortably, inconspicuously and while protecting your gear. Would I want to drop it loaded from 4 feet? No, but if the alternative is a hard-shell suitcase with a shoulder strap (I know I'm exaggerating here, but some heavily padded bags can be like that), go for light weight convenience.

-- Peter B. Goldstein (peter.goldstein@us.cgeyc.com), March 02, 2002.

Unlike the others, I do not recommend the Domke 803. My major complaint is that the inside is not Velcro compatible. The standard interior leaves you with few choices in how you can arrange your gear. A much better bag IMHO is the Billingham Hadley Pro. It looks a lot like the 803 with one big inside compartment and two outside pockets, etc. The big advantage is that the entire interior is Velcro compatible which means that you can customize the interior to suite your needs. I got the black version with nickel hardware. It is one beautiful bag. One thing I don’t like is that the strap is sewn on. If you buy through www.robertwhite.com the cost is very reasonable.

-- Bob (robljones@attbroadband.com), March 02, 2002.

I forgot to mention that the Hadley Pro, at least to me, looks much more like a satchel type briefcase than a camera bag. Also, the Domke F-5XB is a great bag for those times when you want a smaller bag.

-- Bob (robljones@attbroadband.com), March 02, 2002.

Check out the Lowepro "Linx or Lynx" line. They are by far both the ugliest, yet most functional bags I've used for small cameras. I use the larger one...I forgot the model number...but I can wear it all day without a problem. They're very form fitting and easy to work out of.

-- Jim Tardio (jimtardio@earthlink.net), March 02, 2002.

Kristian,

I bought the Domke F-802 and F-803 satchels, and the LowePro Orion Mini Runner. I did some research on dimensions and portability, so here's my $0.02 on bags:

(1) Don't get a bag that has zipper enclosures at the top. At some point you'll end up scratching the Leica glass somewhere. One scratch and it's over. I think some of the Billinghams and other bags have zippers. The Domke has no zippers or velcro.

(2) Some velcro enclosures are astonishingly noisy. So much for stealth.

(3) Dimensions. The Domke F-803 has interior dimensions of 13x4x9 (inches) or 468 cubic inches. It costs $77.97 in the US and comes with the one compartment insert. The Domke F-802's interior is 15.5x4x12, or 744 cubic inches, and costs $59.97, and comes with NO inserts. (Bigger is cheaper, figure that. I think all the Leica people have driven up the price on the F-803's.) By comparison, the interior of the LowePro F&S Reporter 100 that you have is 9.3x6x6, or 333 cubic inches. (All prices from www.bhphoto.com)

(4) The Domke 2 and 3 compartment inserts have the distinction of being utter crap. They are flimsy nylon with cheap foam. Costs them pennies (made in China or Korea) and they charge $17.95 for the FA- 220 two compartment insert and $18.95 for the FA-320 three compartment insert, both of which I got, to my regret. Thieves. The single insert that comes with the F-803 is better than the 2 or 3 inserts.

(5) Domke sells a "Post Office" shoulder pad FA-031 for $12.95. It is foam padded, and angled so that the bag won't slide off your shoulder. This is a good buy. I recommend it. Your shoulder won't hurt after a long day.

(6) If you put the two or three compartment insert in the F-803, the bag will feel stuffed. It is adequate with the one compartment insert that comes with the bag. I use the 2 or 3 insert with the larger F-802 when I am carrying two bodies or the chunky SLR.

(7) I recommend putting a few layers of bubble wrap at the bottom of the Domke bags, since the incremental weight is negligible and it provides cushioning that is sorely lacking at the bottom of the Domkes. These can be replaced when the bubbles are past their prime.

(8) I bought the LowePro Orion Mini for $31.95 (8x4.5x6.3=227) as a one-body-one-lens quickie waist belt. The camera is face down and the lid of the bag opens away from you, so it is easy to grab the camera. If you get this, get it in black as the other colors are too loud.

(9) Colors. I bought the Domkes in Olive Drab. If you buy Black and go to dusty places outside the city environment, the dust is earth colored and will make the black canvas bags look dirty and more conspicuous, whereas the dust blends in with the Olive. Besides, Black is too common. The Domke Sand, and Navy Blue are too light and bright.

(10) In the Domke F-803 I carry M6 with 50mm attached; 35mm and SF-20 in the compartment (in case). Table tripod, Nikon SC-17 cable, and cable release at other end. Spare batteries and film in pockets of bag. It looks a bit stuffed, but it's ok and doesn't look like a camera bag. No logos at all either, which to me is a huge plus.

Enough from me.

-- Vikram (VSingh493@aol.com), March 02, 2002.

The correct address for Robert White is: http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/ Sorry about that.

-- Bob (robljones@attbroadband.com), March 02, 2002.

Robert White is a great retailer, BUT if you are a Mac user watch out on the web site as there are JAVA script problems associated. They recommend using Netscape last time I looked. It froze my browser each time so far!

-- Tim Franklin (tim_franklin@mac.com), March 02, 2002.

The 803 carries a lot more than it looks like it will and as a working bag it is very nice. As a transporation bag it is lacking. There is not enough padding to withstand a drop, and the lack of a zipper makes the main compartment accessible to dirt, dust and prying fingers. I strongly recommend the Domke F5XB along with the Domke belt and an Op-Tech SOS "Mini" strap as an all-round transport/carry bag for an M outfit of up to 2 bodies and 6 lenses. I have more than my share of like-new Billingham bags sitting in my closet. Once you've used an Op-Tech SOS strap you will not ever want any other, no matter what kind of huge shoulder pad it might have. The Billinghams do not have removable straps and D-rings.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), March 02, 2002.

I strongly second getting any Domke in olive drab. After two trips through the washer my brand new O.D. F6 looked exactly like a beat up old piece of army surplus; whereas my sand-colored one still looked like a nice camera bag after two years. I have given it away.......

-- david kelly (dmkedit@aol.com), March 02, 2002.

Thanks guys. I think that the Billinghma is out of the question as I want a bag that doesn't look like a camera bag. The Domke sounds perfect though I am not too sure which one.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 02, 2002.

I think it has come down to two bags. the J-803 and 803. Is the J-803 much bigger and heavier than the 803? How about the pockets and insert?

Thanks

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 02, 2002.

Hope you can stand one more opinion. I have the Domke F-803 and feel that it's perfect for the Leica M cameras. My biggest fear with it is that some day I'll forget ot clasp the front (no backup velcro on front flap) and my 90 apo & 50 will role out! Yikes!!! All in all the F-803 price and capacity make it a winner. Maybe I'll sew in a small velcro patch. :0) Good luck, Scott

-- Scott Evans (scottevans@attbi.com), March 02, 2002.

The 803 is an OK bag. I have one but now it's mostly my 'overflow' bag, holding the lensless Nikon F I keep for old time's sake, cable release, little-used filters, spare lens caps, tabletop tripod, etc.

I have two headaches with the 803 - it is very deep, so I was constantly having to scrabble around in the bottom for things that were underneath other things. And the very large (and admittedly very protective) front flap kept getting in my way.

On the plus side - I love the fact that almost ALL Domkes have a big flat pocket for reporter's notebooks across the back - also useful for quick access to plane tickets, a paperback book, or my pipe - when traveling with one carry-on bag.

Within the Domke line I most like the 'little bit smaller' bag (F6?) because it is shallower top-to-bottom while still having lots of space and 6 internal divisions as well as outside pockets.

But what I actually use right now is a Hadley - I think it's the 'small' version, but haven't ever seen the two sizes together to compare. It lacks the Domke's back pocket, but there are thin gaps between the internal padding and external shell where I can slip pens, a notebook, business cards, etc. - which is a partial substitute. It easily holds an M with lens, plus 2 unmounted lenses, flash and meter. I carry the second M and 4th lens out ready to shoot.

IMHO the 803 looks just as much like a camera bag as most anything else. If you really want a stealth bag I think you'd have to look towards those wine-skin shaped bicycle courier bags or a rucksack or a strapped leather briefcase.

Since I almost always have a camera out and mostly visible anyway when shooting, my bag isn't going to be much of an additional giveaway.

FWIW David Alan Harvey uses a bag sort of like a small gymnasts duffle (black leather or simulation) mostly full of film.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), March 03, 2002.

Andy as usual, you have contributed valuable information that has greatly helped. Pitty I can't afford the Hadley, which i would have to import from somewhere. Even the Domke in Australia costs US$100.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 03, 2002.

Well i decided on a bag. The domke 803 Satchel in Sand colour. I chose this and added the larger single insert to fit the M6 body and 35 Lux Asph. The other (included) single piece will house the 90 Apo. It cost me US$120 with the extra insert....steep...but it's what I really want. I also saw another great bag, the F6, but I went against it because it didn't sit as well without much gear. It kind of moulded wherever.

Anyway guys thanks heaps for your help. Appreciated as always.

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 04, 2002.

I also use an F803 sachel bag and find it just about perfect for an M outfit. I bought a 3 section insert, made by Domke, which fits this bag perfectly. I suppliment this with a few other divider pads. I just returned from a trip carrying, in this bag, (1) M4-2, (1) 35 Summi(ASPH)with hood, (1) 50 cron, (1) 90 Elmerit M, (1) Peak 6x anastigmat loupe, (1) minolta IIIf light meter with seperate incident & reflector domes, 6 rolls of film, (2) B+W filters in their plastic cases, x-tra meter battery, (2) cable releases, dusting brush, and (14) 12 oz. .999 pure sterling silver ingot bars. Yes, the bag was heavy, but everything was well protected. This bag will hold more than you would believe possible. I own many different Domke bags, but this one best suits my current needs. You won't regret owning this bag. :-)

-- Ron Snyder (STUDIO1401@AOL.COM), March 04, 2002.

Ron, that's a lot of stuff. I'd really like to see how you got it all to fit in. Was everything quite accesssable?

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 04, 2002.

Watch your stuff when you lay your 803 on its side even with the clasp secured. I was at a night time wedding and my 50 Summicron somehow was able to fit through the space between the lid and body of the bag with the clasp secured. You have to watch those small lenses. Fortunately the lens was found and returned to me the next day. After that I kept the lenses in Zing bags inside of the 803.

-- Joe Barbano (joseph.barbano@symmetron.com), March 04, 2002.

kristian, I'll try to remember how I had it all packed.

Domke f803 sachel bag (black)

The silver bars(each approximately 1 1/2" x 2 1/2" x 3/8" thick) were at the bottom of the bag, split 7 bars in each of the two end sections. In one end section was also the 90mm then on top of that was a folded padded insert with the loupe on top of that.

In the other end compartment were the 7 bars at the bottom, then a small padded insert, & the 50 cron.

In the center compartment was the M body with the 35 ASPH & attached hood.

In the left front pocket was the light meter & extra battery.

In the right front pocket was the two filters (in plastic cases), dusting brush, 6 rolls of film, bubble level, & misc. other small items.

In one of the top flap pockets was the incident dome, & 2 cable releases.

In the other top flap pocket was my wrist watch, suit case keys, filter adapter ring with attached extra 46mm lens cap.

I hope this answers your questions. I wouldn't reccomend traveling like this all the time, I just wasn't going to ship the silver. No problems at all with the bag. Its just fine. My shoulder, on the other hand... ;-(

-- Ron Snyder (STUDIO1401@AOL.COM), March 05, 2002.

Shit Ron, oh can I say that? Anyway I didn't mean "explain how you got it all to fit", but hey I appreciate the explanation. But I don't understand what you mean by bars

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), March 06, 2002.

Kristian,

I've had a sand colored Domke 803 Satchel that I've used on & off for the past 12 years. I like it a lot! I currently use it for my M6TTL w/ 35 & 50 'crons and SF20. I still have plenty of room to add a second body and tele in the future. I probably would have opted for the J801 Satchel (ballistic nylon version) had it been an option when I bought, based on Mani's comment of having a bit more padding.

I actually prefer the size of the Domke FX-5B belt bag for my present kit, but it really needs a few pockets for accessories and the velcro is awfully noisy. Although the 803 is a bit deeper than I need, it's far more versatile than the FX-5B due to the exterior pockets including its full size pocket on the back of the bag.

-- Ken Prager (pragerproperties@worldnet.att.net), March 08, 2002.