I sent my M4-2 to Sherry and she called me today. We had a nice chat that began like this: "I just want to let you know that your M4-2 is the biggest piece of that Leitz ever made"....

She's a one of kind! She suggest an overhaul ($165lab+$40parts) and suggests that and only that, because as she says "if you insist on using the camera, we're gonna be chatting like this a lot".

The viewfinder/rangefinder inner optics are delaminating.. what I thought was fuzz from fungus, was actually delamination. The RF spot is fairly dim because of this. New RF mechanism is $214!!!, and is the only fix for that problem. I have a choice of M4-2 or M4-P/M6 type RF mechanisms (4 frames vs 6 frames). If I get the RF replaced, should I do the 4 or 6? I

I "may" need a shutter curtain, because she says the lumpyness was overheating from sunlight. It has not burned thru, but got hot and lumped up the rubber on the cloth. She doesn't suggest a new curtain unless its curled at the edges (she won't know until she has it apart).

Ok kind folks... I need some advice: Should I spring for a new RF mechanism and have a nice bright focusing patch, or should I just leave well enough alone? And... should I just have her replace the curtain regarless, as its bound to fail, or... wait till it fails. Curtain is $60 plus $15 more in labor now, or $60 and $90 labor later, so its like the seventy five dollar gamble.

Sherry suggests that an M4-2 is doing well not to have something break every 4 years or so. She was really down on em....

What are people getting out of theirs in the real world as far as repairs are concerned? This camera has seen almost no use, and is virtually 100 percent cosmetically if that makes any difference.

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), February 27, 2002

Answers

Seems like she's being a bit over the edge, doesn't it? I've got an M4-2 that I really like, but it's not got long enough of a history for me to dis it yet. :-) But if it was mine, I'd get the new finder, and new shutter curtains, and take the chance that by some miracle it turns out to be more reliable than a Minolta or a Canon or a Pentax or a . . . . . . well, you get the idea. Does she really mean to say that even she can't make it so it's gonna work? Somehow I find that hard to believe.

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), February 27, 2002.

She is just saying that the shutters are not so good, the clutch is so-so, the synch contact cracks off internally and jams the camera, etc etc. As she says it.. it was made by file and shim, not by fit or close tolorance.

I can see that she is really UP on the pre-M4-2 cameras, and no doubt they're made better, but have things changed all THAT much since the M4-2 changes? Is the M4-p or M6 etc made significantly better? I have no idea.

How about the finder? Stick with 4 and keep it original? Go with 6 and have the laterst? Price is the same either way.

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), February 27, 2002.

You received Sherry's standard speech. She takes these cameras apart and puts 'em back together for a living, so I trust her opinion of the guts of these machines far more than I trust the opinion of some who praise every new product to come out of Solms.

That said, I believe that Leicas, even the M4-2, are better made than probably any other camera on the market today. And there's no reason that Sherry Krauter's Golden Touch can't make your M4-2 essentially better than it was when it left Midland. If you think you're going to keep this camera, then doing all the fixes is a worthwhile investment. Get the overhaul, get the new RF mechanism (only you know whether you want 28 and 75 framelines, can't help you there), get a new clutch and replace the shutter curtain if it needs it. I would bet that the camera will keep clicking for a lot longer than four years before you need to send it in again.

I have an M6 that Sherry has worked on three times in the last two years -- overhaul, new advance gear head and clutch, new ISO dial switch, new upper light shield (and some minor surgery on the lower light shield which tore), new frameline lever mechanism -- about $600 total. The camera is truly better than it was new (and I bought it new). BTW, it was new in 1996, so her four to five year estimate was true in my case. It was worth it to me because I figure I'll use that camera until it absolutely dies. I'm not selling it.

One other line you will hear Sherry K. utter like a mantra: "The systematic cheapening of every part in the camera." I bet she's not happy about the new electronic shutter. . . .

-- Robert Schneider (rolopix@yahoo.com), February 27, 2002.

I have a lot of respect for Sherry, as well as for Don Goldberg who is much less flamboyantly outspoken. You might consider getting a second opinion. However it sounds to me like your particular M4-2 has lived an especially hard life. I don't know the cosmetic condition, but an M4-2 has a terminal value (at present) of about $1000 in *mint* shape. Whether you choose to put all that money into it is of course your choice. Personally I would very likely e-Bay it "as-is for parts" and put the salvage proceeds along with the repair money, toward an M6.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), February 27, 2002.

No! Its had an easy life - just a boring one. It does need a clutch (just that m4-2's are prone to go out, saith Sherry).

It does need a 2nd curtain, and new RF because of delamination, and a CLA (all gummy, not broken).

The outside metal is perfect, not a scratch! The vulcanite is starting to go, but sherry says glue it till I can no longer stand it.

The camera has literally had virtually no use, a "closet classic" as they say.

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), February 27, 2002.

Charles, Do yourself a favor and tell "the Golden Touch Lady" to return your camera. I know she's a big favorite of the Greenspan web site but, let me tell you ...... My M-6 went there for a total overhaul, it came back working REAL SMOOTH but, only for a very short time. After only 10 months, I noticed on each roll of film, one or two frames was only partially exposed. How can this be I thought to myself. This camera has just been serviced by the Golden Touch. That night, the camera completely jammed. So, I called her the next morning. After totally dissing it saying its barely a notch above an M4-2 she persuaded me to send it back again. Three weeks later my baby comes back. The first thing I do is inspect the camera. I set the shutter speed dial to B and fire it. What happens? The shutter doesn't stay open. What's going on I ask myself. I put some film in, shoot and process the roll. Suprise, Suprise nothings been fixed. All she did was un-jam it and let it sit on her shelf for three weeks, wasting my time and money. The negativity that she expounds is the same thing that goes into your camera. Leica New Jersey is the way to go. Do you want to use a 28mm lens? Then do the 6 finder. Have a nice day.

-- richard b (rubyvalentine@earthlink.net), February 27, 2002.

I bought a well-used M4-2 a while ago, which Sherry CLA'd for me, and it required nothing in the way of parts. The viewfinder was a little cloudy but she cleaned it up perfectly. Perhaps storage conditions could account for the delamination and the shutter curtain deterioration but I'm hard-pressed to understand why the clutch should go on a little-used body. But my experience with Sherry is that while she may invoke poetic license for some of her diatribes, when it comes to estimating repairs she is 100% trustworthy.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), February 27, 2002.

I'm having trouble keeping straight everything that's wrong with this camera...1. Rangefinder delaminating...2. Shutter curtain problems...3. Vulcanite problems...4. Clutch in need of replacement...Am I missing anything? For a camera without a mark on it, I'd say you've got yourself quite a handful. I'm not trying to slam the M4-2, but this one sounds like a charity case. My advice is to cut and run. Sell it on ebay as a parts camera. There are plenty of great Leicas out there that will operate flawlessly for years....

-- Carlin (carlinm@abac.com), February 27, 2002.

No, not clutch, it was a typo.. was supposed to be DOESN'T need replacing... sorry

just CLA, RF replacement, and 2nd curtain.

The curtain has like a bubbled back, caused by not so much burn, but overheating due to out of focus sun on it. Maybe left in a dashboard with lenscap off, or similar.

The camera looks like it has sat on a shelf for all these years, paint and finish are perfect, but other is all deteriorated from time

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), February 27, 2002.

Hmm. I don't know, Charles, that's still a HUGE repair bill. And I'd second Sherry's diagnostic skills as well. If she says it's going to be a problem camera, expect it to be. I think this camera would make some collector very happy by continuing to do what it's done all it's life...sit on a shelf in 'perfect' shape.

-- Carlin (carlinm@abac.com), February 28, 2002.

Get it back, put on eBay as what it is: a cosmetically near-mint camera that has been sitting on the shelf nearly all its life and needs a CLA. I'll bet you get at least a grand to put towards the M2,3, or 4 that your grandchildren will inheritin well-used but excellent working condition.

-- david kelly (dmkedit@aol.com), February 28, 2002.

Charles et al,

I may not be a trusted expert on old Leica, nor on CLAs, but I hope you are not "married" to this M4-2. Rationally thinking, it seems like a wise decision to sell it as is and start fresh. I've seen a number of "minty" M4-P on eBay lately go for around $725-800. On top of that, M6 and M6 TTL prices are likely to fall in the short term. There are good deals to be had out there with a bit of patience.

Cheers,

-- Patrick (svenburg@yahoo.com), February 28, 2002.