I ended up with a Leica coin or medallion as part of a recent purchase. I did not think anything of it when the guy said he'd throw a small medallion in on the deal. However, when I got home and pulled it out of the box, I noticed it felt pretty heavy -- too heavy for its size -- so I decided to take a closer look at it. It is about the size of a US silver Dollar, and is in a plastic case inside of a presentation box. It has an M4-P on one side, and a bust of Oscar Barnac on the other with some dates. In really tiny print on the side it says "sterling" with three odd marks. So it is obviously a minted coin of some sort, and it is in proof or uncirculated condition.

So, can anybody tell me what it is, and if it is worth anything (other than the ounce or so of silver it contains)?

Thanks in advance!

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), February 26, 2002

Answers

The original Leica coin was double-headed. It was issued for use by customers trying to make up their minds whether to buy the latest Leica goodie now or to wait until they could afford it. I've found the coin very useful but I have to hide it from my wife . . . :-)

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), February 26, 2002.

Jack, is the date 1983 mentioned? - this was when the special anniversary issue of the M4-P and other commerative products (70 years)were released to celebrate the first Leica prototype by Oskar Barnack produced in 1913. I believe the medallion was made and sold as a collectors piece.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), February 26, 2002.

Jack, I too have one of these coins. It came boxed with an M-4P and a rather large light brown leather wallet with a small Leica logo embosed on it. The camera was a regular stock M-4P. I think Giles is right, that it was a 70 year commemerative. I still have my coin and wallet, but am sorry I sold that camera. I don't know anything about the value of the coin, but it shure is beautiful. Ron Wills

-- Ronald Wills (youngdeer@earthlink.net), February 26, 2002.

The R4 also came with a similar coin at a similar time (mid 1980's). It had ol' Oscar on one side and the R-4 on the other. It is a mostly silver coin (so I was told). It came in a plastic case and was included in a small box that also had the previous mentioned leica embossed leather wallet and a copy of the current Leitz catalog. It did not seem to add to the cost of the R-4 I purchased then and there was not any specific edition to the camera. The camera was just a regular R-4. I bought a dealers demo and only after I had agreed to purchase the camera did the dealer remember to mention that these goodies were also in the box. At that time the M-6 had not come out yet and the current M camera (M4-P) was also given the Oscar medallion treatment. I suspect the M4 medallion is now a bit more popular than the R4 version, paralleling the popularities of the two cameras but I doubt either coin was all that rare. If teh R-4 coin ends up being worth real money some day I will be very sad that when I sold the camera I also included the coin and wallet in the deal. Oh Well. Robert

-- Robert Ardinger (rardinger@kc.rr.com), February 26, 2002.

Look for a "750" marking on the coin. It means that it is pure silver. Look for a small stamp.

-- Rob Schopke (schopke@attbi.com), February 26, 2002.

Giles: No 1983... It says "1879 - 1936". I presume that is Oscar Barnac's life span?

Rob: There are three very small stamps that I cannot read unless I get out my high-power loupe. There is also a small series of numbers that looks like 710, but it could be 750...

I think I'll put it up on eBay to see what happens -- I don't own an M4-P and don't plan to anytime soon -- I'll keep you posted!

Cheers,

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), February 26, 2002.

I was wrong the 750 is Gold. Pure silver is marked "925" It should be a very small stamp. There may also be a small STOD stamp encircled by an oval with a like through it going straight through the "O". Anyway, there are markings on finely and precisely made metals. These stamps for put there for a reason. They are international marking...understood and having an exact meaning for each and every country on earth.

These marking are an indication of the purity of the metal. Sterling does not cut it. My point is that unpure metals are not marked with these markings. These markings add value to the peice. I would stear clear of ebay till you know what it is worth. I would locate a rare coin collector and have it appraised prior to putting it on ebay. You may be selling something for far less than it is worth (Know the value to place a good reserve. I may be interested in the coin if you are getting rid of it. Let me know, if you will, what you find out.

-- Rob Schopke (schopke@attbi.com), February 27, 2002.

http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/v04/msg06125.html

Check out that...a coin for sale

-- Rob Schopke (schopke@attbi.com), February 27, 2002.

http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/v01/msg12310.html

Check that out too. A coin not sold.

-- Rob Schopke (schopke@attbi.com), February 27, 2002.

http://www.ritzcam.com/cgi-local/listing.pl?sort=d&cat520=520

Check that out too. Another coin not sold.

-- Rob Schopke (schopke@attbi.com), February 27, 2002.

Thanks, Jack for the question ,and Rob for the answer. I quess for the 50 bucks or so the coin might be worth, I'll keep mine for now. Ron Wills

-- Ronald Wills (youngdeer@earthlink.net), February 27, 2002.

The stamp "925" is the universal standard for Sterling silver--i.e., 925 grains/1000 grains of silver (Ag); the other 75 grains are alloy. "1000" would be "pure" silver. It's the same for gold (Au), except "karats' are used instead, 24 karats equaling "pure" 1000- grain, unadulterated, unalloyed gold. Thus, 18 karat gold = 18/24 x 1000 = "750" (grains) whereas 14 karat gold would be 14/24 x 1000 = 583 (grains). Thus, for gold to equal the "purity" of Sterling silver, it has to be (x/24) x 1000 = 925 where "x" then = 22.2 karats.

-- Cosmo Genovese (cosmo@rome.com), February 27, 2002.

Hey Jack, Why not comtact Solms. Maybe they could use it in the Leica Museum.

-- Ned learned (ned@kajabbi.com), February 27, 2002.