21 or 24mm?

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After many years of lusting after a Leica I have finally aquired an M5 that came with a 50mm Summicron which is like brand new. I had Sherry at Golden Touch go through it and it is a real performer. My quandry is this....I have been using it for about 9 months now and I have no complaints with the 50mm I just feel the need for a wider lens. I am looking at the 21 and 24 that Voigtlander offers. There is a significant difference in price of the two and was wondering why. I have heard really good things about the 24 as well as the 21. Is there a big diff. in the image between the two? Leica lens are out of the question now as I am stretching it already. Will you get that much more with a 21? Any input wouls be appreciated. Thank you.

-- Michael Pry (vila@busynet.net), February 22, 2002

Answers

I have the Voightlander 21mm which I am very happy with. I have not tried the 24mm, one reason, it is NOT rangefinder coupled. The 21 is. I would get the 21 and then down the road, the 28/1.9.

-- Steve LeHuray (steve@icommag.com), February 22, 2002.

I have the Voigtlander 25--it's a fine lens, no worry about that, but I agree with Steve, and am myself thinking along the same lines as he suggests, because of the coupled focusing.

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.

Again, an old -- but interesting and important -- story. First check out (if you already haven't):

21 Pre-Asph vs. 21 Asph vs. 24 Asph
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=006A Yg

24mm Elmarit-M vs. 21mm Elmarit-M
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=007a h1

What For 21mm?
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0064 wy

24 Elmarit asph test
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=004l Ld

The 24/2.8 ELMARIT-M ASPH
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=006t w1

Your expriences with 24/2.8 M lens
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=007G Lv

And then check out all the other postings on 21 and 24 each!

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), February 22, 2002.


Er, thanks for the links, but he was asking about Voigtlander lens.

I have the 21. It's a nice performer. Even though its rangefinder coupled, I find that I rarely use that feature, even shooting in low-light. In terms of coverage, I find that there's a huge difference between 21 and 25. I guess it's up to you and how much coverage you want/need. At any rate, you can't go wrong with either lens. Both are great performers at very attractive prices (plus, they come with the best finders ever made).

-- Richard (rvle@yahoo.com), February 22, 2002.


Richard, you're right, he's looking for Voigtlander stuff (if he had all the dough necessary he'd probably consider the Elmarits) but I thought he might want to check out those links because there, many experiences and feelings have been posted, which favour the one or the other of those two lengths.

I'd say that of all lens couples where the biggest questions have been asked, it was always the 21-24 pair (at least for wide angles).

The best thing about Voigtlander is that whatever they cost, you can buy all two of them for the price of one Leica.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), February 22, 2002.



You can virtually buy the WHOLE RANGE for the price of one Leica lens!

:)

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), February 22, 2002.


Right you are, Michael. And as you point out, one can buy both of them for a lot less than one of the Leica versions (plus, you don't have to pay extra for the finders). Another thing to remember is to add the cost of a LTM-to-M adapter to the final cost.

-- Richard (rvle@yahoo.com), February 22, 2002.

As noted - the biggest difference is that the 25 (not 24!) scale- focuses while the 21 is coupled to the rangefinder.

Personally I prefer the 21 view - whenever I use a 24/25 I ALWAYS run into situations where I want just a little more field of view or 'stretch' in the corners.

If you had a .58 viewfinder the 25 would just barely be usable without an accesory finder - keeping camera bulk down. But with the M5 you'll need an accesory finder in either case.

There have been reports here that the 21 is occasionally susceptible to flare if pointed near the sun - and I have not seen such reports regarding the 25.

It is also possible that V'lander will eventually introduce a coupled version of the 25 (they already sell it that way in Contax/Nikon RF mount). If they do, the prices of the uncoupled 25s will tank, leaving you high and dry when/if you decide to move to a 21 or to Leica glass.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), February 22, 2002.


In my opinion it was dumb of VC to make the 25mm uncoupled. For an extra $100 they could have cammed it for r/f coupling like the 21mm. Much more useful and the price would still have been fine for their market.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.

Robin: You aren't wrong, but you might just as well complain that the Leica-O doesn't have RF focusing either.

Remember that the VC 25 was introduced with the Bessa-L camera (along with the 15mm) as a novelty - no RF or viewfinder to USE a coupling. They were sticking their toes in the screw-mount water as a personal experiment by the Leica-SM-loving company president - who probably had clearance from his board along the lines of "Just don't LOSE any money!".

So they kept the whole thing as simple and cheap as possible. Shoot, they weren't even providing the SM-M adapters originally - not until they found out just how many buyers were paying "Leica-made" prices to fit the 15/25s on Ms instead of IIIc's.

That's why I expect a coupled version eventually. Now that they've proved the market, and have 2 other lenses (21/35) using the same barrel WITH coupling, it will eventually be cost-effective - if not downright cheaper - to make all 3 lenses couple. (Hmmm - THAT sounds a little kinky!)

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), February 22, 2002.



Hi Michael,

I have a VC 25 and 21. My only complaint is that they look alike and like my 35.2.5. The 25/4 isn't RF coupled which makes it a summer lens for me (with long bright days) and not a winter lens. The price for both lenses (which come with external finders) is less than the price of one Leica 24 or 2i without finders. But money isn't everything. The VC's are also wonderfully light, which, for my street photography needs, make them more practical than the Leica lenses (though I occationally drool for the 24/2.8). I've heard a rumor to the effect that there will soon be an RF coupled 25/4 for Leica S and M mounts (pardon me that sounds funny).

If you are only get one lens, get the 21/4. It's a delight and a half.

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), February 22, 2002.


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