Death penalty part three

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Fred,

My computer is old and it was taking to much time to get to the end of the posts on other CP. thread, but I had to answer your question because You give a excellent example as why I believe that we need CP. And why the Church does not close the door on it!

Fred, you said to me, " so there is benefits gained from these people. Bob Stroud could have gotten the death penalty too. .." and than you went on and said, " But he put his mind love and compasion..."

Fred, Eugene was correct, because you make up your facts as you go along! I will show you even though your anonymous buddy would rather me not, because they are against CP.

Your example you gave Bob Stroud- Well lets look at Robert Stroud ( AZ#594) known to the public as birdman of Alcatraz. And Fred he was given the death penalty, but President Wilson commuted his sentence to life imprisonment without parole.

In 1909 Stroud brutally murdered a bartender, and took the man's wallet to ensure his prositute got her money. He was convicted and sent to prison. His records at this prison (Mcnell island) indicate he was very violent and very difficult to manage! On one occasion he visiously assulted a hospital orderly that he thought reported him for a narcotic violation. On another occasion he stabbed a different inmate! ( See how your example behaves in prison Fred)

Well he was given a little more time and transfered to Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary in Kansas. He continues his troubled ways here with continous threats to other inmates Fred. In 1916 he was refused a visit by his brother. He got angry and STABBED A guard to death in fron of eleven hundred inmates.

Fred you mention a cure for a bird's disease! But what about the bartenders life that this murder took? What about the man's family that lost him for ever in this world? What about him assulting a hospital orderly that is just trying to support their family?

What about the prison guard that he stabbed to death, while serving time for a different homicide? What about the murdered guard's family? His children grew up without a Dad, because your example and you even said ("put his mind, love and compassion)?

I am sorry Fred but your example (Robert Stroud #594 ) is the exact reason that we need CP. in America. What because he was a pimp of young girls, a murderer, and he murdered in prison and could not be controlled until he was old!

I would rather see a bird have a disease Fred, than have people get murdered! This man even murdered people in prison!

But Fred makes him out to be a HERO, and this is why Fred believes in doing away with CP. Because He would rather see murderers get more rights, and prison guards get killed at work.

Now, rember, this was your example that you gave!

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), February 22, 2002

Answers

God bless our correctional officers.

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), February 22, 2002.

Tim McVeigh murdered one hundred and ? people. The point is David, the Pope had some idea that even then we should'nt kill him.
Maybe you should try to meditate on the Pope's thoughts and wonder how he gets to those conclusions rather than cling to your position.
Somehow you think yourself more enlightened than the Pope. I just don't understand it.
Chris

-- Chris Coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), February 22, 2002.

Hello, Chris C.

You said, " Somehow you think youself more enlightened than the Pope. I just don't understand it."

But Chris, I follow the teaching of the CCC. You don't! I could go in to detail about some of the liberal things tht you have said in the past about homosexuality etc... that are 100 percent against the Church's teaching!

If you arn't the pot calling the kettle black, that what is?

God bless you.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), February 22, 2002.


David,
Please bring on the details and tell me how I counter the teachings. Except, maybe, that I won't throw out my homosexual tenants on to the street. But I don't think there is text that says that I should put them on the street.
Love, Chris

-- Chris Coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), February 22, 2002.

David

Just tell me this: We have for years in New England have shown compassion for our murderers and given them prison sentences that are for multiple lifetimes and theey are still behind bars bothering absolutely no one. Wwe New Englanders never hear much of them ever once behind bars. Yet here in the CP states such as Illinois where I am we are constantly being reminded of the prisons and prisioners due to the mad behavior of the prison Guards and the Wardens. I would rather see the peacefulness of the New England states than the crazies of this area in the CP states.

-- F Bishop (jfj@gh.net), February 22, 2002.



Brutality gains more brutality. Peace and compassion gains more peace and compassion. The Middle and southern states of the country are full of bitterness in the papers, on the streets and even in the Churches. In the NorthEast, there is much more love and compassion and love for our fellow human good and bad. Here, as my wife and I ride the bike throughout the area we see many prisons all along the highways. In fact it has been the main employment of the people here as prison guards and the like. In the NorthEast the prisons are few and seldom heard of and the workforce is gainfully employed in other trades besides the prisons. The attitudes I have seen here towards people and the lack of good law enforcement training is quite obvious. The way of the redneck is supreme. Someday when my wife retires, we will move to a state that is far more peaceful than this area that promotes hatred.

-- F Bishop (hfhfhf@hghg.net), February 22, 2002.

David

I never said that Bod is a good man--Never that is you speaking. I was only referring to some of his good points. The guard he killed was a fool to do what he did to Bob in prison and I cannot condone that no more can I ever condone Bob killing him. I am only pointing out the good things he was able to contribute. The ills he did stand and will always stand. I have seen many over the years that have done bad also do good in other ways. The way of the Devil is quite complex and hard to see sometimes and human nature as what it is has it's own faults too. Remember the only perfect one is the Triune GOD that we get our blessing and grace from is the only perfect one.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 22, 2002.


Hi, Chris C.

At this point, I would not want to bring on the details to prove you wrong, because I do like you! I don't feel it would " bear good fruit" digging up old threads with intentions to prove you wrong with something you said in the past.

I would ask your permision to pass on this one? Buy if you insist, than I will respect your wishes, but I realy don't want to fight with you. I do respect your opinion on CP., but I just don't agree with it.

God bless you.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), February 22, 2002.


Fred,

I would suggest that you take Chric C advice to you on the part two thread. You couldn't of picked a worse example to state your case. The truth is you did not know much about Bob Stroud, or anyone in their right mind would not have brought him up. Now today you are talking like that you know all about him, and the guard he killed while in prison for serving time on a seperate homicide.

Please leave me alone Fred, I am begging you!

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), February 22, 2002.


Christ has never left me alone and I cannot do that either. I have compassion for my fellow human good and bad..Why is it you can't?? Try it it is far more humbling to love than it is to hate.. Try it, You will like yourself better for it. I did that a long time ago.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 22, 2002.


Fred, CC and David:
We are just ordinary people, who get our opinions from others whom we respect, or from the media, or the ''trends''.

Nothing at all about capital punishment is NEW. It has existed as a norm for all of human history (I think).

But now, for some reason a world-view of this norm has it that once it was OK; but now we are a better people and have to stop it.

I love Pope John Paul II. I WANT to agree with his love and compassion and respect for life. If it weren't for this, I would say save the electricity and chemicals. Use a rope on every man or woman who is condemned by the courts to die. Because I can buy a rope this afternoon in less than a half-hour!

But I really don't think EVERY desperate criminal deserves to die. Only a very few.

And I don't see how anyone with brains can say ''We are a better people now, than our grandparents and ancestors were.'' We are NOT any better than they were. We are the SAME as they were, and they accepted the necessity for CP. Not a LOVE for CP, only the necessity.

What has brought about this change; this modern world-view? Could it be the opposite of ''sanctity of life''; with which all of us have to agree-- and could it be a totally unreasonable REJECTION of death, in any and all circumstances? It's as if death has more HORROR for all of us now than at any previous stage in world history. Death is given CULT status, by the very people who ought to scorn death, defy it! Christians !

Everybody has to die someday. Mother Theresa finally died. I will surely die. What's to be so afraid of?

Now, I respect the sanctity of every INNOCENT life. I will step into the bullet's way, to save another innocent life, (and so would all of you) because you've committed no crime. You aren't barbarous killers, who chase a victim into the alley and beat him to death for pocket change.

When that killer's time to die comes my compassion will certainly be with him too. Just as the Pope's was with Timothy McVeigh, and the man who tried to assassinate him. But, the killer ought to die, everything else being equal. He has earned his punishment.

Our only consolation is, he only dies ONCE. Same as me, same as Chris Coose or Fred Bishop. It's a sad thing to die; but why should it be unthinkable and unbearable? This doesn't show (for me) RESPECT for life. It shows idolatry of death; it raises death up to CULT status. Nothing is inherently wrong with death. We know this, because even the innocent Lamb of God didn't see it as too terrible to undergo; in order to redeem us all. And to redeem even those who are justly executed for beastly crimes. They too, will be at the Banquet with us, if God gives them the grace of repentence.

Forget about death. When the innocent die; \\then// let's lament death. We have to be reasonable about it, friends.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 22, 2002.


Gene,

Sometimes you have a beautiful way with words! You realy have a talent there! And you put your talent to good use. Sometimes:)

God bless you.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), February 22, 2002.


Look at the courage the Women who reecently lost their husbands, Beemer and Pearle. The courage they have shown the world is far greater than that of the rest of us in that they have shown great compassion to the killers and have not demanded the death penalty in any form. Al they have asked for is simple justice and peace to prevail. I only wish I had that too and admire the courage they show.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 22, 2002.

David,
I can cook, too. And my dog really loves me, because I learned to wag my tail for him! Lol!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 22, 2002.

Mr. Bishop,

You said that in New England there isn't the death penalty. Actually, New Hampshire and Connecticut have the death penalty.

Anyway, New England is probably the least Christian portion of the United States. There are virtually none. Public support for abortion is rampant. I don't know what your argument proves.

-- Steve Jackson (stevej100@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.



Steve:
I thought MASS was full of Irish Catholics?
Give 'em a break won't you? Does this mean they aren't Christians? I think I've heard that song before.
/ / ''No, Dolly; Catholics are not real Christians,''

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 22, 2002.

Eugene,

I can't judge people's hearts, but is there any reason to believe that most people who profess Christianity in the USA (catholic, protestant, or whatever) are?

For example, we often hear that there are a billion catholics in the world. Isn't it likely that the large majority of these people are nominal believers, at best?

-- Steve Jackson (stevej100@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.


+

GOTCHA!--
Steve, I asked about those Irish who attend Mass!!! If you're in Mass on Sunday, I guess you could still be nominally there. You just don't put a dollar in the collection basket.

You're SLOW, Jackson!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 22, 2002.


I don't get your point.

-- Steve Jackson (stevej100@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.

The last execution in N.H. occured in 1948 and the State has a moratorium on it now. Also the state of N.H. and the majority of New England is predominately Catholic. From my last recollection it has been at least 20 some years since the last execution in New England. I believe it was in Connecticut. The death penalty is heavily unfavored and may never be implemented ever again. AS far as the Catholics in the New England area is concerned they are heavily influenced by the French culture then the Italian and Irish with the Polish coming up behind them all in the southern Massachusetts and nothern Rhode Island areas.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 22, 2002.

I don't think it's the case that the death penalty is heavily disfavored in New England. I live there and most people I know support it. Mass. has come close to passing the death penalty recently.

New England may have a lot of Catholics, but I'm sure the majority of Mass. Catholics voted for Ted Kennedy in the 2000 reelection. That indicates to me that their faith is quite nominal, if not non- existent.

The last person executed in Connecticut was Joseph "Mad Dog" Taborsky in the 60s. He got what he deserved.

-- Steve Jackson (stevej100@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.


Lethal injection consists of:

(1 ) Sodium Thiopental ( lethal dose- sedates person)

(2) Pancuronium Bromide ( muscle relaxant-collapes diaphragm and lungs)

(3)Potassium Chloride ( stops heart beat )

The offender is usually pronounced dead approximately 7 minutes after the lethal injection begins.

Cost per execution used : 86.O8

There are five methods of execution in the United States: lethal injection,electrocution,lethal gas, hanging, and firing squad.

Hanging was means of execution between 1819 and 1923.

The great State of Texas executed the first offender by electrocution on 2/8/1924, Charles Reynolds from Red river County. On that same date, four additional offenders were executed.

US Death row Statistics- All figures as of Jan.1 2000

Race Number Percent.

White.....1,701.....46.71 (percent)

Black.....1,562.....42.77

Latino/Latina.....312.....8.54

Native Indian..... 45.....1.23

Asia.....31.....0.85

Unknown.....1.....0.03

98.58 percent are males.

As of Dec 31 1999, the death penalty was authorised by 38 states and the Federal Government. I am proud to say that my state authorises capital punishment.

Since it has been a topic of debate lately, I thought I would put some facts up for those that were interested.

God bless you.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), February 22, 2002.


Steve

You are a jerk, for the majority of faithful in the New England area are Catholic and that is it. Stop the wackiness of yours. and the state of Massachusetts defeated the death penalty once and for all in recent years by a resounding majority. So get your facts in the right order. And the death penalty is not favored at in in the area. I know that. I lived there for 57 years. Furthermore the Judges in the area are no longer in favor of the death penalty. Get your facts right bozo.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 22, 2002.


David

You are proud???? That is a sacriledge and a mortal sin to show pride in the killing of humans by humans willfully. What in hell is your Catholic pride fool? You just violated all of your Bishops, Cardinals and Pope. Stop being a gross fool!!!!!

-- F Bishop (fcbishop@jfjfj.net), February 22, 2002.


Who gives a damn about you and your foolish pride. You are a killer and the sickest bonehead I have ever heard of. You are destined to rot for your denial of our holy Fathers and the rest.

-- FB (fcbishop@jfjfj.net), February 22, 2002.

Fred,

Please tone it down when debating with me! I can't help but notice, that you get nastier at night time. I wonder why that is?

Fred, the last execution was almost 42 years ago in New England, so you were correct about that when you said over 20 years ago! " Joseph " mad dog " Taborsky was electrocuted on May 17, 1960. The state did him a favor, because he had already made two suicide attempts in prison. After his last meal he walked calmly to the chair where 10,000 volts of electricity were sent through his body over a four minute period!

Do you know what this savage did? During a 14 week crime spree, he was responsible for eight holdups and six murders. All of his victims had the back of ther heads blown off. He tried to kill everyone he saw during a robbery/murder. He even pistol whipped a female clerk and left her for dead.

Benard and Ruth Speyer of Meriden(a very loving couple, as descibed by friends) were killed because they were entering a store to buy a pair of shoes. Taborsky was smashing someones brains out with a pistol, when they entered the store.

The husband tried to shield his wife, but Taborsky made them. " get flat on ther stomach" and then he shot the back of their heads off.

In my opinion Fred, this person got what he deserved! This is exactly what CP. is for, people like this! This is the extreme case because it was not a one time incident. It was over and over and over AGAIN.

Instead of cursing me out when you read the facts that you were over 20 years off on. How about we all say a prayer for the six innocent lives that had the back of their heads shot off, or beat off over 40 years ago. And lets pray for the horror that their familys had to go through. Imagine having to go to the city, and identifing the body of someone in your family that had the back of their head beaten, or shot off? Imagine looking at them on the slab.

How about the victims and their beloved familys rights Fred? You don't think they have a right to speak out? Everyone roll over and play dead, because we have a new sheriff in town that does not believe in CP. If we disagree with you than we are going to hell right Fred?

David S.

PS: Fred I forgot to add that the Speyer family begged for there life, but Taborsky still blew the back off their heads off.

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), February 23, 2002.


David,
No matter how many hideous stories that you tell David you continue to hold your stance. I asked you a while ago to consider how the pope got to where he is on CP and all you did was call the kettle black. There is a reason the Pope speaks the way he does on this matter and you might want to consider how he got there.


-- Chris Coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), February 23, 2002.

David

All you do is back peddle and ignore your leadership, The Popes and Christ. Tell us. Who is right YOU or the whole Church guided by the Christ through the POPES. You Sir are a backpeddler and hate to be obedient to our Church leaders. Well when are you going to be progressive and stop the regressive baloney. Christ ordered the Apostles to go forward and they did and you want to go backwards. You are no longer humoring me. Answer the questions and forget the past and seek the real truth.

-- Fred B (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 23, 2002.


Hello, Fred.

May God be with you on this glorious Saturday morning.

I am sorry, but I did not see any questions asked to me, for me to answer!

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), February 23, 2002.


David

Christ created the Church so we can go forward in our faith with him, not backwards. Even Peter saw this in one of his visions clearly when Christ asked him what was so bad with some of the things of the past. He proved that his way was good and the old is now in the past. The Popes in recent times have followed these very thoughts and teachings. Go forward and LOVE THY NEIGHBOR. Forgive your enemies as the Pope, Mrs Beemer and Daniel Pearl's wife have. Forgive as St John and Mary have. These sre just some of our examples. To forgive is Christian. Hate is from the devil. Why can't you tell the devil to go away? You becoming his brother? you do speak from his mouth well. You have clearly shown us that you DO Glorify death in a horrid manner. It is the thoughts of a person of hatred that you are following. Please Get it out of your system. MARY and JOHN and the rest never once uttered hatred for the ones who killed Christ. But you continue to kill him daily.

-- FB (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 23, 2002.


F.B.,

I agree with you on that hate is evil. The death penalty should NEVER be used for hate. I have never said that it should either!

But we do need to apply it only in extreme cases. In my opinion " mad dog" got exactly what he deserved-He is the extreme case that needed to be put to sleep. By putting him to sleep there were probably lifes saved from being murdered. After all look at what your example (Bob Stroud) did to a guard, and other inmates in prison.

Take Care.

David S

-- David S (asdzx8176@aol.com), February 23, 2002.


Dear Fred, Chris C., et al,

Under the circumstances, no one has the right to judge David S. His views are perfectly reasonable to him. If he expressed them in terms you don't agree with, just say so. He has every right to his own honest opinion. Just as you, me and John Paul II do. We are called to LOVE one another, aren't we? When we repeatedly castigate David, he is within his rights to object. I see what he writes daily. Nowhere is he saying you MUST believe just because he says so. He is not convinced the Pope has condemned PC; nor that the Pope is being disregarded. David says (I believe him) that there is room for argument in the matter of the death penalty.

I would shudder to think my opinion was ever tantamount to pronouncing another person SINFUL or without God's grace.

Even in the matter of homosexuality, my only condemnation for this is the facts. I would never sin against a homosexual by limiting his God-given rights, or dtraction and defamation. My own mother, God bless her; taught all of us-- do not even call another person a liar! No gossiping about anyone! Not even about what is clearly factual. It isn't your business, stay out.

I think David is a fine man. To say he's deserving of hell is definitely unChristian. He hasn't sent anybodys' soul to hell. He just believes that death for the evil perpetrater is an option. An option that's open in very rare cases. I agree with that. If that makes me evil, or an enemy of my Holy Father, I can simply say as Jesus did: ''Judge not, that ye not be judged.''

If you would expect the same words to apply in favor of all those on death row, I disagree. We do not judge; we uphold the Law. The law provides for capital punishment. It's better to work for the repeal of CP, than to fight with those who can rationalize it.

Chris Butler, at the preface to this discussion said: ''We have the duty to examine ourselves and see if we have reason to think this is really DOCTRINE when the bishops and Our Holy Father declare them. Then, and only then are we under any edict of the Church. Public opinion, or the opinions of other countries have nothing to do with the laws of our own. Personally, I don't care what Sweden or France do with their convicts. I'll abide by their laws when I am there, and in my country I abide by U.S. Law. Criminals are expected to abide with the law as well. Now, stop pestering David. We're all friends in this gathering! LOVE one another--

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 23, 2002.


You have absolutely no intent to reform and it shows in your clear refusal to repent. you do not want, nor do you ever intent to obey the teachings of the Church and her fathers. TOO BAD. You are so full of hatred that only GOD can help you now..

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 23, 2002.

Three quick comments, guys:

(1) To Fred:
You stated, "Also the state of N.H. and the majority of New England is predominately Catholic."
This is not correct. There is only one state in the U.S. in which more than 50% of the population is Catholic -- and that is Rhode Island (64%). As a whole, New England is well over half Protestant. For example, Maine is only 18% Catholic, Vermont 25%, New Hampshire 28% -- according to Our Sunday Visitor's "Catholic Almanac" (1998 edition). [Let me know if you want any others.]

(2) David, you mentioned the use of firing squad for capital punishment in the U.S.. Is that past or present? It was (or is) Utah, right? I think that I just heard that Mormonism required the actual shedding of blood, for theological reasons.

(3) Gene, you just stated: "Chris Butler, at the preface to this discussion said: 'We have the duty to examine ourselves and see if we have reason to think this is really DOCTRINE when the bishops and Our Holy Father declare them. Then, and only then are we under any edict of the Church. ..."
There are two problems here. (a) You did not put in the closing quotation mark, so a reader cannot tell where your quotation from Chris B ends. (b) Actually, I don't believe that you were quoting Chris B! It seems that you were paraphrasing what I stated at the top of the "Death Penalty (Part 2)" thread-continuation, just above my big copy-and-paste of Chris's essays from Part 1. The actual words I used were these: "I think that each of us has a serious obligation to work hard to determine whether any or all of the texts quoted [by Chris B] are 'doctrine' and, if so, what level of assent (if any) we must give to what is stated in each."

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), February 23, 2002.


Eugene & David,
Hoping that I've offended neither of you. I'm finished on this thread because after I asked David about his difference in belief than what the Pope expresses, I turned the table on myself. David is correct. There is much that I do not follow. Much more than David and he was right to call me on this. Sorry friend.
I do live in a big glass house and I should be the last to be tossing bricks around.
Love, Chris

-- Chris Coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), February 23, 2002.

OK, John. I think you're right. I paraphrased a paraphrse. I hope the gist of it was conveyed. hey; I was dismayed at also seeing my <>marks didn't close the quote. It happens to me form time to time. I've got in the habit of repeating these closers 2 and 3 times at the stop; maybe I skipped it that time. I hate when my ital or underscores carry over to the next post!!! Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea CCCCulpa!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 23, 2002.

John

The protestant ranks are a varied mixed bag of different kinds in New England with the Catholics outdoing them all in single churches. There are not more Congregationalists and there are not more baptists and there are not more Christian Scientists and so on. The Catholics in manchester N.H. overwhelmsthem all and teh rural areas are slowly turning towards the Catholic ranks. The Fundalmentalists are rapidly loosing favor due to the harshness that they exibit.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 23, 2002.


Hi, Gene. Thanks for you kind words about me! You put a smile on my face from ear to ear when I read that.

Hi, Chris C. I am in no way offended by you! You are my friend, and you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. I would rather you say what is on your mind. You have never condemned me to hell (like Fred has). This is one of the most hotly debated topics in America.

Hi, John. The use of a Firing squad (at the option of the inmate) is still legal in Utah and Idaho. A team of 5 executioners take aim at the convicts trunk while the prisoner is strapped in a chair. Some of the shooters have blanks so the real killer is unknown.

Hanging ( at the option of inmate) is legal in some states also. Since 1976, 3 prisoners have been hanged in the US.

Fred. The Guillotine was last used in 1977. But the last public execution took place in 1939. The guillotine was invented by Joseph Ignace Guillotin. It was first tested on sheep and then on human corpes. It became the official instrument of execution in France in 1792.

God bless you.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), February 23, 2002.


Davids biggest guilt is the way he continually gloats on how to kill another person. It is the talk of a person that is purely full of hatred and it needs to stop. Gloating is inhumane and that is the end of that subject. His gloating has carried this subject beyond humane reality.

-- Fred bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 23, 2002.

Note- Federal executions, efective February 1993, were to be carried out by lethal injection. Eleven States and Federal prison system require a minimum age of 18. Sixteen states indicated an age of eligibility between 14 and 17.

Of the 36 states with capital punisment provisions, all but Arkansas provided for review of a death sentence regardless of the defandant's wishes.

About 2 in 5 inmates sentenced to death had a criminal justice status when they commited their capital offences: About half of these were on parole and half included persons with charges pending, on probation,in prison or escaped from prison, and others.

Half of the inmates ever sentenced to death have been sentenced at age 29 or older. About 10 percent of people on death row have a previous homicide conviction.

Texas, Florda, Virginia, Louisiana, and Georgia have accounted for 72percent of all executions between 1977-1993.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), February 24, 2002.


Dear David,
I feel that I understand you as well as anybody in our forum, so I'm not judgmental. Yet, I do agree with Fred Bishop, for reasons of respect for the dead and love of our neighbor; it's best to ''cover our eyes'' when we are in the presence of somebody else's death.

No one could draw pleasure from the death of a human being. Not the most indecent human being. In fact, the death of the most indecent and vile human being is a lesson for each one of us: There, but for the grace of God-- Go I.

Justice is done by the sentence of death. Sometimes injustice. But no matter which, death is a time for regret and sorrow. I realise you know all this. But Fred has a different idea of the innocent bystander's view of thse things.

Fred may think there simply AREN'T any innocent bystanders! I just wish he wouldn't judge them all as accomplices to murder. That is also unjust. Jesus said, ''Judge not, that you may not be judged.'' God be with you, David.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), February 24, 2002.


David

I am sorry for the condemnation I bestowed on you and this is the truth. It just is the I have prayed for days that you would part with your exteme anger and see that life is GOD's to judge and not ours. I will not bother to be on this thread to condemn you, but to hope to persuade you to show genuine Love for Others. It is love towards our neighbor that we Catholics take pride in and to help others to have the best life as we can possibly give them through the Graces of GOD.

-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), February 24, 2002.


Fred, Thanks for your prayers! I read a article today. It said that over 50 percent of Catholics are for Cp. It will always be hotly debated subject.

God bless you.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), February 25, 2002.


When the state takes the life of a criminal for a good reason, it may do so without any spirit of revenge or hatred. It's not a question of hating the criminal, but wanting justive to be done. Even Avery Dulles, who opposes the death penalty and is something of a liberal admits that in his recent First Things article.

-- Steve Jackson (stevej100@hotmail.com), February 26, 2002.

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