M7- half step backward, one step forward

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Ok, it seems from the recent M7 posts that there are a considerable number of people excited. I for one am not. Sure, aperture priority has been added with an off switch. To me these are the only real improvements. This makes me wonder......in almost 20 years, Leica comes up with a camera that can do this. What are they trying to say to the public? "Hey at least we've progressed!" I don't call adding 20 year old technology progression, do you? God knows how much R&D money they've spent into making such improvements, where the money could have been spend more wisely. And who's money is this? It's our money. I and many of you have paid to fund such improvements.

Couldn't they have learnt something from the Nikon FM3a? AT least, they could have added a faster shutter, which i believe is more useful than adding slower ones that we could work out ourselves anyway. Having a shutter as fast as 1/1000 sec limits the kind of photogrphy I like during daylight- shallowing DOF. All this is is a camera designed for the rich camera buffs out there that want to use Leica but have no clue nor ability to use it in full manual. Even then, have they really done a great job of this?

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002

Answers

Well if the M7 doesn't end up replacing the M6, I take back my comments, as the M7's purpose will be to fill a gap in the market. I am and will only really be dissapointed if Leica replaces the M6 with the M7. Otherwise the M7 would be a nice second body......we shall see

-- Kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.

Well, higher shutter speeds would likely bring higher shutter noise so I'm glad 1/1000 is the top end and 1/50 is still the flash sync speed. I wonder if intermediate shutter speeds will be possible for the M7 when in match diode mode? That is a handy low light feature of earlier Leica M all mechanical shutters.

-- Doug from Tumwater (dbaker9128@aol.com), February 22, 2002.

Even if leica eventually discontinues an all mechanical body, we'll all be dead and gone by the time all the M6s, M3s, M2s, etc. are used up. And probably by that time everyone will have gone digital anyway. Leica is just trying to keep up with the market trends. They have to if they want to remain in existence.

-- Dennis Couvillion (couvilaw@aol.com), February 22, 2002.

One last comment about the M7: I'll bet it takes great pictures.

-- Dennis Couvillion (couvilaw@aol.com), February 22, 2002.

The "M" series seems to work for many very successful photographers. M4, M6, M7 - fact is the cameras are designed and built extremely well, can take the rough and tumble of use, have world-class optics and let the photographer control how the image is made. Its the creativity of the photographer and the eye for the shot that makes the difference, I think. The '"M" series are first class tools. I think I'll be keeping my M6 TTL for many years. Its too easy to get sucked into "feature creep".

I suspect the only reason Leica feels compelled to bring out yet another tweak to its "M" series film cameras is to satisfy the pundits who are too eager to report on the impending death of the company.

-- Phil Allsopp (pallsopp42@attbi.com), February 22, 2002.



I agree a faster shutter peed would make possible use of wider apertures with today's excellent high speed films, thus maximising the qualities of Leica optics.

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), February 22, 2002.

It always fascinates me the way in which some people who have bought a Leica are so interested in having more bells and whistles added to it. It forces the question: If you are so unhappy with the way a Leica is, why did you buy one in the first place?

I am not a luddite! I have Nikons with AF and even a digital Nikon. I bought 2 Leica M6s as tools because they are ideal tools for a certain aspect of the photography I do. They are simple, unobtrusive cameras with, arguably, the finest 35mm glass available in the world.

If I wanted an AF rangefinder I would buy a Contax. If I wanted a more modern manual focus rangefinder I would buy a Konica.

While I am not, as such, opposed to futher features on the Leica M, I really don't think it is that important.

Some people want a digital M. Fine. Maybe one day, when digital sensors can do justice to Leica lenses, I will buy a digital body for my Leica system. At the moment there is NO digital sensor which can do justice to the glass. Why sacrifice quality for convenience. If current digital technology is good enough, then you don't need Leica glass.

While I have various autoexposure options on my Nikons I have found that my hitrate of correctly exposed trannies is higher when I shoot with manual exposure choice. While I might buy an M7 you can be sure that the AUTO setting would see virtually no use at all.

I think peop-le must be careful. "If it ain't broke, don't try and fix it." would seem to apply here. If you want an all-singing, all- dancing camera then a Leica M isn't your cup of tea.

Kind regards

Harold

-- Harold (harold.gess@btinternet.com), February 22, 2002.


Yeh, total agreement with those who aren't excited by the new M7. Aperure priority is nice but the 1000th speed is still a let-down. I don't believe in a half-way option. You either go one end or the other. If faster shutter and ap. priority etc is what you want, go for an R8 if you want to stick with Leica.

For my money I am going to stick with my M6TTL (my modern version of a rangefinder, until they come out with a faster shutter speed option) and my M4 (my classic ALL manual version).

Old is still better. Simple is Best.

-- sparkie (sparkie@mailcity.com), February 22, 2002.


  1. I'm afraid I'm repeating myself again.
  2. I'm repeating myself because all these topics here about M7 are repeats too.
  3. As just mentioned in the parallel posting (id=0087uf), the whole thing is somehow pretty perverse. Leica is simply one example, but a good example. The younger these things get, the more we want the oldies.
  4. E.g. I've long been working on what to get next (out of M2/3/4s) and even thought a new M6TTL (this time in chrome) might just be the best bet. Such an idea was as a matter of fact supported my some of own best men here in this forum.
  5. So I hope that M7's advance will at least cut down on M6TTL's current price. But maybe it won't. Who knows?


-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), February 22, 2002.

After handling one of the M7's, yesterday, I will say it is an improvement like the ttl, not a major change. I would have prefered an electronicly controlled shutter. Not to acheive higher speed but to have consistant exposure between bodies with today's demanding films and for higher fill flash sync.

The AE viewfinder readout is clear and the on/off lock is long overdue. The new ISO dial on the back is well thought out and having exposure compensation is again catching up to the 21 century.

All in all my brief encounter with the camera was a mild okay, what's next?

Happy snaps,

Steven Alexander

-- Steven Alexander (alexpix@worldnet.att.net), February 22, 2002.



Kristian,

"Our Money"? I don't think so. Taxes are "our money". Money spent on goods belongs to whoever it is spent with. As in "spent".

Regards,

-- Alan Purves (lpurves@mnsi.net), February 22, 2002.


Steve,

What we really want to know is does the focusing patch still flare?

Steve

-- Steve Belden (otterpond@adelphia.net), February 22, 2002.


I shoot mainly from 30th sec up to 500th sec and am more than happy with the M6 metering. I like the fact that all shutter speeds don't rely on a battery. Aperture Priority is'nt important to me... I'd like to think that M6 prices will fall cos I want another one! Don't think Leica have gone far enough....

-- Stewart Weir (weirs99@aol.com), February 22, 2002.

Instead of "Half step backward, One step forward," I'd suggest, "One step sideways."

To me there was no PHOTOGRAPHIC reason to revise the M6 until digital advances sufficiently to allow the same picture-taking options that exist with film: depth of field control, no shutter lag, Quick focusing, etc, etc.

But it doesn't matter, they'll sell M7s with no trouble and THAT's really the main issue for Leica, isn't it? :)

-- mikeP (mike996@optonline.net), February 22, 2002.


To All:

The likely reason a faster shutter speed is not to be had on the M6 is that 1/1000 is about as fast as one can get with a horizontal cloth shutter. A faster one would require an aluminum or titanium shutter, which is a totally different mechanism, which Leica would likely have to buy from somone in Japan. Setting up production for that would be like making their own digital cameras from scratch.

I will keep the M6 Classic, as I already have an M7..OOOPS I mean a Hexar RF.

Cheers

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.



Over looked in all the discourse so far has been much discussion on the 7's setting of up to 4 seconds in non AE mode and purported AE exposures of up to 32 seconds.

I predict increased sales of tripods and cable releases.

Hustling out to buy stock in some of these companies.......

Jerry

-- Jerome R. Pfile, Jr. (JerryPfile@msn.com), February 22, 2002.


>>>1/1000 is about as fast as one can get with a horizontal cloth shutter.<<<

The Leicaflex of 1964 has a horizontal rubberized cloth shutter with a maximum speed of 1/2000 sec and a sync speed of 1/100 sec. The Leicaflex and Leicaflex SL shutters are extremely reliable. I don't know about quiet 'cuz the mirror flopping up & down makes enough noise to mask the shutter sound. Could lock the 'flex mirror up & compare with an M except I don't have an M.

-- Douglas Herr (telyt@earthlink.net), February 22, 2002.


Kristian:

Leitz camera is making some business in selling their Range Finder Camera. It seems so nice that their competitors, namely Contax, Cosina and Konica are trying to enter that "niche".

There is no "need" for a very sophisticated camera. I believe the Leica has spent money on Production process and eventually cost reduction and repair/maintenance procedure.

Like a Rolex Watch: it may not be the most accurate but you can use it and keep it a long time if it is propoerly maintained.

Now, a Swatch has a pretty accurate movement and Seiko Kinetic is very precise. All of them keep time but, well, you have a preference.

Cheers.

-- Xavier d'Alfort (hot_billexf@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.


Dennis, i bet i can take good pictures.....with virtually any camera- NOT just an M7

-- kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), February 22, 2002.

True, Kristian. But with all this whining and gnashing of teeth about the M7, I'll bet it does allow the user to take good pictures. And isn't that what a camera is supposed to do?

-- Dennis Couvillion (couvilaw@aol.com), February 22, 2002.

First, on a technical issue...

1/1000 is about as fast as one can get with a horizontal cloth shutter

Olympus had a horizontal cloth shutter in the OM4T that went to 1/2000.

But with all this whining and gnashing of teeth about the M7, I'll bet it does allow the user to take good pictures.

Most cameras do...

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), February 22, 2002.


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