I'm considering a second body, and wondered if the Hexar or Bessa R2 might complement my M6TTL. Reviews of both cameras mention quality lapses and manufacturing defects, which trouble me. Still, the stupefying price of another M6 or M7 are leading me to weigh off-brand options. Any thoughts/experiences would be welcome.

-- Gulley Jimson (gulleyjimson@hotmail.com), February 19, 2002

Answers

If you don't need metering , get an m2 or m3 . Construction is much better , and they're cheaper .

-- leonid kotlyar (kotlyarl@mail.nih.gov), February 19, 2002.

"If you don't need metering , get an m2 or m3 . Construction is much better , and they're cheaper."

Not really. You can get a clean M6 Classic or a new Hexar for little more than the price of a good M2 or M3. You can get a new Bessa R for less than half that.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), February 19, 2002.

Gulley; I have the Hexar RF and an M6 and can not say enough good things about it-the Konica. The build quality is excellent-30 years will tell if it is up to the standards of the old Ms.

I have had NO PROBLEMS with rangefinder alignment and have used Hexar, Voigtlander, Leica, and Industar lenses on it with no problem. Battery life is excellent as is ergonomics. I have had no exposure Automation inaccuracies: overall excellent.

I have only seen and held the Bessa 2, but own a Bessa L- great little camera for what it is- a body to hold 2 wide angle lenses. A bit clattery but accurate and well designed. I moan and groan every time I recall how much I paid for the Leicas I have loved( sort of like Willie Nelson and Julio Iglesias), but have no real regrets about keeping the M6 Classic. Leica repair people are very busy, so not even the Leicas are perfect. There are threads on this forum that tell sad stories of multiple returns to Leica for incessant problems: with a Passport warantee, they seemed to have been fixed quickly. I have had no problem with the Hexar(s I have an older non-interchangeable Hexar Black) or Cosina, so I do not know how their service is.

I have spoken to both distributors and their attitude over the phone has been much MUCH better than the old Leica distributor here, with whom I will NEVER deal again.

(Tell me you are not the ghost of Alec Guinness living as a Bohemian painter on a houseboat.)

Cheers

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richard.ilomaki@hotmail.com), February 19, 2002.

The prices on Hexar RF bodies has come down quite a bit while the Bessa prices have remained stabile. They are birds of different feathers but for me it's a no-brainer. The Hexar RF just far and away outclasses the Cosinas. Nonetheless you might wait until the M7 hits the street, for a short time at least you may see a window of opportunity to buy M6 bodies at a good price.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), February 19, 2002.

This is one area where Jay and I disagree. I know, a rareity, but...

IMO, you are FAR better off with a used M6; the Hexar is NOT in the same league as a Leica. Period. Borrow or rent one for a day (even an hour is enough) and you'll know what I mean. A decent used Hexar will cost you $800-ish, a decent used M6 around $1150-ish. Trust me, and HAPPILY spend $400 extra. You won't regret it, and let's not even talk about re-sale value...

As for the Bessa R2, assuming it hits the market at under $500 it might be worth looking at. But due to the short RF base, I would consider it primarily for use with lenses 50mm and shorter.

Re an M2 or M3, I abosolutely agree with what Dave said. Except the Hexar part.

:-),

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), February 19, 2002.

Thanks, Jack. But please note that I only said he *could* get a Hexar for the price of a decent M2/3--I didn't say he *should* get one.

-- Dave Jenkins (djphoto@vol.com), February 19, 2002.

Gulley:

Depends on how you define 'complement'. (It also depends on what lenses you use and which viewfinder your M6 has.)

The Bessa R2 will have roughly the same feature set as an M6 minus the 28 and 135 frame lines, and with a little more noise. You can 'substitute' it for the M6 at times, or shoot both together somewhat interchangeably, since they are both mechanical, manual-wind, manual- metered bodies.

The Hexar RF will have a very different feature set from the M6: it is basically unreliable for focusing with any lens longer than 50mm, but offers auto-exposure, auto-wind, auto-load, fast shutter/flash sync speeds - and a nice big viewfinder tunnel that can effectively frame for a 21 or 24, and makes the 28/35 framelines extremely easy to see even with glasses. But you'll always need the M6 alongside to handle the telephotos, unless you can limit yourself to f/8 or so. If your M6 is a .58 - you'd better LUUuuv wideangles only!

So if you want to add a whole lot of functionality to your M system at the normal-to-wide end - get the Hexar. If you want a second body that (sort of) duplicates the M6 in handling - say to shoot alongside with a second lens - get the R2 (or a used Leica M-whatever).

I had the original finderless Bessa-L. It developed a problem where the extra shutter would occasionally 'pre-fire' and lock everything up. I haven't heard of this happening with the later bodies so maybe Cosina got on the problem and fixed it.

The Hexars sometimes come with mis-adjusted rangefinders - I've seen ones that were spot-on at infinity and ones that were way off. But the shutter/motorwind mechanisms seem very tight and reliable, on the whole. The build is really as good as a Nikon F100 or Contax G or other top-end micro-motor-operated cameras.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), February 20, 2002.

Jack and others, I don't know where you buy your M2s, but here in Germany these are right now the bargain Leicas, and recently sell for even less than 700 US$ on ebay in user condition. M6s in contrast go for well over $1100. No Bessa / Hexar on the market here, though.

Concerning this to me a user M2 for this price is a no-brainer, even less when they are recently CLA'ed as some of those sold in the last month.

-- Kai Blanke (kai.blanke@iname.com), February 20, 2002.

Why are you not considering an M4-P, surely the most cost effective and ideal second body to your M6. As above the prices in the UK seem very different to the US - a perfectly useable, clean M2 is around £500 ($750), an M4-P can be found for around £600 - £700 ($900 to $1050) but M6 classics are typically £1000 ($1500) - a lot of money to pay for a basic in-built meter.

If you want to save more I would be seriously considering the new Bessa R2 - regarding QC I bet it is better than Leica's current set- up.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), February 20, 2002.

Gulley,

My first question is: What are your needs? If you see a Hexar or Bessa R2 as a "second body" my sense is that you essentially go for all mechanical cameras. If that is so, go for the R2. If you want a camera that will accept Leica lenses and do something that the M6 does not do (auto shutter, auto rewind) go for the Hexar.

I do think you should have more than one M6 body. Eventually you'll want your M6TTL serviced and you'll want to use a camera that is pretty much like it. M6 classics are going at good rates these days. I'd recomend that as your "second body" and then maybe the R2 or Hexar as a third body.

I fear I tend to have a "collect 'em all spririt" which I have to rein in. But I do highly recommend duplicate or similar bodies as a fail safe measure.

My very old (1984-85) M6 crashed recently--frozen shutter. I felt it coming and didn't have it serviced because it was my primary camera, the one I was using close to 100% of the time when I left the house for the street (along with a second body). Had I bought another M6 I know I would have had the other M6 serviced years before the problem happened.

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), February 20, 2002.

Gulley,

I should add that my advice is from the horse's mouth, but I do not mean to be a pilgrim. Well, sally forth. Perhaps on Monday.

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), February 20, 2002.

Gulley,

Joking aside, I forgot something very important. If you really want a secondary body (as opposed to simply another body) you might want to consider the Bessa T. It has an M mount and a reasonable price; it is well built (for the price), fairly light, and takes the Trigger winder. But I only recommend it if you have a few external finders in your collection.

It seems to me that the purpose of a secondary body is tied into considerations of weight, price and not being as worried about walking through Napoli's Spanish Quarter with it as you would with an M6TTL.

The Bessa T is more expensive than the L but below the current R (which is cheaper than the R2 will be) and way below the Hexar RF.

I also realise that I mixed up Sarah Monday and Sally Bowles. Anyway, rejoyce and carey on!

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), February 20, 2002.

A Leica only is worth considering.I see a lot of photographers are really happy with their Konicas, and thats great.Problem with Konica there is NO commitment to their products....They abandon them.There was the Konica 6x7 Rf,the Konica 35mmSLR range,the Hexar,all gone! Leica with all its problems only builds Leicas.The recent ad brochure of Konica is enough to make me really angry.It sort of pretends a similar looking elderly guy to the late (Great) Eisenstaedt using their camera.Eisie whom I was both privileged to both meet and photograph with another wonderful photographer,Peter Magubane. Eisie was pleased with my battered old M3.He used his special numbered edition for assignments!Hope that made all you-miserable-push-the -prices-up-collectors,cringe!The Bessa is a clanky noisy thing,but relatively cheap.Best bet an M3,M4 and a battered M2.If cosmetically poor but otherwise sound,go for it!

-- jason gold (leeu72@hotmail.com), February 20, 2002.

Re: M2/M3 prices v. M6, I agree w/Kai. Where on earth are M6s only "a little more" than good M2s & M3s?! Good user (fully functioning but not mint collectibles in original boxes, etc.) M2s & M3s can be had on eBay for < $800 (& sometimes from reputable sellers w/return privileges like KEH, etc.).

-- Chris Chen (furcafe@cris.com), February 20, 2002.

Gulley,

Another option you might consider is another M6 TTL (or M6 classic) with a different viewfinder magnification from the one you already own, depending on what lenses you use and whether you wear glasses. This could prove more useful to you than merely as a back-up second body.

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), February 20, 2002.