Cosina's home page has just posted information on the Bessa R2 and the new 50/2.5 lens. Go to http://www.cosina.co.jp/ or just use Google and write in "Cosina." The information is in Japanese but the pictures are enough. The Bessa R2 will be offered in Black and Olive. Black is 78,000 yen and the Olive is 85,000 yen.

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), February 19, 2002

Answers

Thanks, but no thanks. This is the LEICA page, by the way.

-- Alec (alecj@bellsouth.net), February 19, 2002.

Thanks, but no thanks. This is the LEICA page, by the way.

Well, I'm sure we're all glad you feel that way. The Bessa R2 is Leica M-mount, by the way.

-- Anon Terry (anonht@yahoo.com), February 19, 2002.

OK, so the olive is repulsive, but check out the finger tab on the 502.5...

-- Steve Jones (stephenjjones@btopenworld.com), February 19, 2002.

Here's the link:

Bessa R2 in black.

Click on the English titles for more pics and info - looks very desirable.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), February 19, 2002.

Hmmmm.... 78,000 yen is around $580. If it comes in at under $500 in the US, it could be quite tempting.

-- Steven Forrey (stevenforrey@earthlink.net), February 19, 2002.

Maybe I'm a Leica snob (slob), but the R2 looks like yet another spin on that cheesy Cosina SLR body.

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), February 19, 2002.

I think this thing is great! I can now afford to get an M-compatible body for each of my kids -- of course, I'll put some vintage Leica glass on them though ;-) I think Cosina has a winner here, and it will be more popular than Leica's M7 due to price alone. (That should tweak Solms a bit...)

Only one problem I can see; it looks like the RF base-length is pretty short -- any specs on that?

:-),

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), February 19, 2002.

To me the R2 looks exactly like the R, just with an M mount. I handled an R and except for the metal outer shell it sounds and feels exactly like my Nikon FM10, which it basically is. Except the Nikon sells for $240 *with* a lens, not $500 for just the body. And the short-base rangefinder has limitations, as does the centerweighted meter which is not selective like the M6. The several samples I handled in a store also all had vertically mislagned rangefinders.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), February 19, 2002.

Here's a thought. What if Leica and Cosina formed some kind of joint venture. Our friend Stephen Gandy (Cameraquest) expressed a wish that Nikon and Leica would join forces. Two giants together would be a disaster--like inviting two lovers over for the weekend at the same time. But two very different outfits--maybe (?). Just imagine Leitz- Cosina 15/4.5 and 35/2.5 lenses corrected to Leitz specifications.

Meanwhile, I wish Voigtlander would upgrade the Bessa L so it would take a Triggerwinder.

And with the M-7, Leica is once again way ahead of everyone else. Anyone for an Olive M-7?

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), February 19, 2002.

The Bessa R has a listprice of 68.000 Yen which translates into $400 at cameraquest.com. I would guess there is a good chance it will sell under $500. There is a slight difference in weight; 395 gr. vs 425 gr. between R & R2. This may not translate directly into "better build" but possibly "better feel".

The viewfinder specs of the R is according to Stephen Gandy:

The Bessa R's finder magnification is .7 -- close to the standard Leica M magnification of .72. Measuring from the edge of the mirror to the center of the viewfinder gives me an approximate baselength of 31mm. 31x.7 = an effective baselength of 21.7 -- or slightly more than the Leica CL's 18.9. I haven't seen any official rangefinder baselength published yet.

-- Niels H. S. Nielsen (nhsn@ruc.dk), February 19, 2002.

Looks like some srious competition here for the Leica buck. How big is the R2? And the T? I wonder if they could replace the CL as a smaller, handy, "emergency Leica?"

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), February 19, 2002.

>...= an effective baselength of 21.7...<

Drat... I'm back to buying my kids an FM10 and throwing one some vintage Nikon glass...

:-(,

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), February 19, 2002.

My friends at my local camera shop, brother and sister, are wondering if the R2 can sub for a CL. The sister wants a small M camera for her small hands. In her case I don't think the R2 would be as compact and light. The R2 and the CL are really different species of camera. The CL is better made, it has an old fashioned meter (which can be problematic) and the range of lenses it accepts (without external finders) is more limited than the R2. The CL is also more expensive and more difficult and more expensive to repair.The CL's shutter is quieter--it is the quietest M shutter I know of.

The R2 will counterpoint a CL, but it cannot be substitute--at least in the way I use cameras.

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), February 19, 2002.

Tip: go here for machine translation.

It works ok, but you'll get things like "Therefore range finder system very it could actualize, the symmetrical pattern design Super wide angular 21 mm lens," but you'll get the idea.

Cheers,

-- David Carson (dave@davidcarson.com), February 19, 2002.

The new R2 looks like a great first, inexpensive camera for those people looking for a starter rangefinder, but who don't desire to lay out the huge cash for a Leica M body. Or, it can be a fine second body to compliment the M system. I myself would enjoy a Bessa setup just to have a different brand of camera to use. However, on a recent business trip to Tokyo, I spent a lot of time at Yodobashi Camera Store looking over the entire Voightlander Bessa system. My impression was that even though I could have saved money over the Leica system, the Bessa line seemed to definitely be more of a budget system than I first thought. I felt like I was holding a Nikon EM, in terms of its very light weight, average finish, and operation. I compared Yodobashi Camera's prices for the Bessa R and a few lenses, along with the Konica Hexar RF, and considered those prices against the Leica M prices I had researched in the U.S. I decided that the overall savings for the Bessa was not nearly as great as I had hoped to find. And, the Konica Hexar RF system (at least in Japan) cost about 90% of the price for a Leica M6 and Summicron 50mm lens in the United States. In the end, I elected to to spend a little (not a lot) more for the Leica system, and get exactly what I wanted in the first place. The Voightlander Bessa line is a fine system, but I'd still rather look for a Mint used Leica M6 and lens that doesn't necessarily cost a lot more than the Bessa. The initial attraction of the Bessa R (and now the R2) body is that you basically get a Leica M for much less money. But my comparison says it's not so, at least when comparing the Bessa to a used, Mint Leica M body.

PS I found the Japanese manual for the Bessa to be very interesting. Most of the instruction pages, right up front, were in German. A few pages in English and Japanese followed at the end. Looks like Cosina is trying to dupe consumers into thinking the Voightlander camera line (which they now own the rights) is still made in Germany.

-- Steve Brantley (sbrantley@nccommerce.com), February 19, 2002.

Son of gun. Wrong link. Here is it.

Cheers,

-- David Carson (dave@davidcarson.com), February 19, 2002.

Steven,

it depends. Here (Italy) it's impossible to find a useable M6 for less than 1200$, and also in this case you'll have to use beaten up bodies. The same seems to apply to Europe in general, so this camera seems quite attractive to use Leica lenses. If you want to laugh, consider that a new M6 here will cost you something like 2600$ (ouch!), and also a new Hexar RF is about 1400$. I'd really prefer saving on the body in order to afford better (=not so beaten) lenses.

-- Antonio Carrus (Milan, Italy) (antoniocarrus@yahoo.it), February 19, 2002.

A quick scan of the info & specs shows the following changes over the R & T:

1. M-mount body, with the body "throat" enlarged so there are fewer M-mount lens restrictions. M-mount lenses which cannot be mounted are: Hologon 15/8.0, Super Angulon 21/4.0 and 21/3.4, first generation Elmarit 28/2.8 and Summicon-DR 50/2.0. In addition to these, the T specs show that standard (non-ASPH) Summilux 35/1.4 won't mount, and the R2 specs imply that the T has problems with some 35/2.0 Summicrons (7-element, pre-Asph).

2. Top cover, bottom cover and rear door are molded magnesium alloy to increase strength with minimum weight penalty. Body itself uses a die-cast aluminum shell (as does R and T) Body weight compared to R increases 30g to 425g; length and width specs are the same but height is listed as 3mm higher.

3. Film advance crank is ratcheted (R is not, T is).

4. Film rewind crank is smoother; implied smoother than R & T.

5. Body fits trigger winder (as does T).

6. Body covering is more "rubberized" for better grip.

7. Available in black or olive.

All finder- and meter-related specs appear to be the same as for the R. The T meter specs show upper ISO limit as 1600; R & R2 go to 3200.

It looks to me like a handy blend of the R & T. List price for black R2 body is 78,000yen (US$586) and 85,000yen (US$639) for the olive body. R list price is 68,000yen (US$511), so the R2 lists for 15% more than the R. At B&H prices, currently $440 for the R, once initial demand spikes smooth out the R2 might sell for just over $500.

Seems to me like a very attractive and economic alternative to an M6, especially to an M6-TTL 0.58. I've always liked the idea of lower-priced entryways into Leica Land.

Cheers,

PB

-- Paul C. Brodek (pcb@skyweb.net), February 19, 2002.

Paul:

Seems to me like a very attractive and economic alternative to an M6

Also seems like a large improvement in finder design. A naked 50mm frame is to die for. If they had asked me, I would have demanded a naked 35 frame. They didn't ask me. ;o)))

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), February 19, 2002.

Thanks Alex.

This Cosina should be great. I think.

For some obscure reason, I like already. Cheers. X.

-- Xavier d'Alfort (hot_billexf@hotmail.com), February 19, 2002.

Sounds like someone should start a Voigtlander/Cosina forum. Personally, I'd settle for one Leica body and lens over a complete Voigtlander system any day. Voigtlander makes a nice system, and it's a great Leica imitation. But it's still just a cheap alternative to Leica. Compared to Leica Voigtlander seems inexpensive, but I'd bet the Voigtlander system wouldn't cost as much as it does if Leicas weren't so damn expensive.

-- Dennis Couvillion (couvilaw@aol.com), February 19, 2002.

The Cosina-Voigtlander User Group (CVUG) mailing list is very active.

http://www.cameraqu est.com/CosVoigtUser.htm

-- Patrick Kelly (patrick@oakroad.com), February 19, 2002.

"OK, so the olive is repulsive..."

Double standard - when Leica made an 'olive' R3 they called it a "SAFARI" and sold it as a collectible - how come it's repulsive only when others do it? Get an olive R2 to go with your olive R3.

(hmm... is it going to be confusing that to Leica "R" means "reflex" and to V'lander "R" means "rangefinder"?)

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), February 20, 2002.

A brief note: The R2 will be able to use the old 'cron and 'lux 35/2 and 1.4. The CLE and Bessa T couldn't deal with them. Both Asahi Camera and Nippon Camera are featuring the R2.

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), February 20, 2002.

Everyone talk about features. what attracts me is that the R2 weighs about 10 ounces less than my M5. I can put a 50 summicron on it and have a beautiful lightweight camera. the finder on the R is very big, bright and clean. It is so much better than the CL that the latter finder looks like a toy. If the CLE had a decent metering system, I would still be using it with the 40 summicron.

-- jay goldman (goldman@math.umn.edu), February 20, 2002.

Can anyone point me to some reviews or images on the web taken with the 50/2.5 Skopar?

-- manajeer (dmm@bronze.lcs.mit.edu), June 03, 2002.