I have just started my first photography class. All photos have to be 8x10. My teacher has recommended plus-x 100, but I frequently shoot in low light. I am thinking about tri-x 400 to fix that. He has warned us to stay away from t-max. I do not plan on push processing and am worried about grain. On the same roll I may have indoors shots and landscapes. Any help is appreciated. I am open to suggestions on other easy films, as I think the teacher may be kodak biased. Thanks.

-- daniel reitzenstein (goaliemandan@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002

Answers

It seems that ASA 400 is the best compromise, but I don't believe that there is a do it all film. I use Tri-X and it is excellent and has proven itself well over the years, at least for Sebastiao Salgado, and his images are arguably soem of the best of that kind in the world. I have recently met a pro who shoots celebrities and he strongly suggests T-Max 100 and 400 because they are an improved imulsion over the old and proven tri-X. Tri-X is also proven to be a great lens to push to up to 3200. i say give botha go under different variations of processing. Only that will give you a true definative answer. Good luck

-- kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), February 18, 2002.

I always liked Tri-X better than plus-x. I used it in D-76 1 to 1 mostly but found that I liked HC110 better personally. B&W is very personal because the variables of camera, lenses, lighting, water, agitation, developer, development times, printing technique, enlarger, enlarger lens, print developer and on and on all come into play and interrelate. Try this guy's recommendation for a good starting point.

http://teachnet.edb.utexas.edu/~leica/hc110.html

and try to standardize to reduce the variables as much as possible. Best of luck.

-- Don (wgpinc@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002.

I wonder why the instructor told you to avoid TMAX? True, its need consistent agitation, but to me its one of the most reliable films available. Its results will not surprise if you employ a regiment of times/temps/agitation. 98% of the BW film I use is TMAX

http://www.shuttercity.com/ShowGallery.cfm?AcctID=925

I find trix too grainy for my needs, when i want grain I do 3200 tmax.

thats just me. The best advice, find something you like and perfect it to death, exploit it to its fullest ie:zone system. Have fun, great images to ya!!!

-- mike (thearea19@aol.com), February 18, 2002.

I can't for the life of me understand this. I'm not picking on you specially, Daniel, but in the past 48 hours I've seen 10 or more threads asking the question "What B&W film should I buy?"

Why not just buy a couple of rolls of each ASA you can get your hands on and see what they are like? Isn't that the point of taking a class, learning something about different films.

I try new films all the time. Just got a roll of Fuji ACROS 100 to try. I dunno what it's going to be like, if any pictures on roll 1 look decent I'll buy another one or two and see how it works in different developers.

Don't rely on other people's judgement to make your decision. Try stuff. Film is one of the cheap parts of this pursuit. Experiment, play around, study! You're going to be shooting in low light? Sure, grab a roll of Tri-X, Delta 400, APX 400, etc ... See what they do, all of them. Try different developers, push and pull them.

Classes aren't about making master pieces of photographic excellence. They're about LEARNING photography.

Sorry for the rant... I think I need some escapist fiction to settle myself down a bit. I'll go read Donald Barthleme...

Godfrey

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), February 18, 2002.

one more thing..... I expose for shadow and develope for hilight. (or overexposed 1-2 stops , depending on contrast level of scene) typically i do tmax 400 rated same, developed from 5 to 5.5 minutes at 68 degree. 5 second agitation every 30 seconds. tmax developer diluted 1:4. again, find what works for you.

-- mike (thearea19@aol.com), February 18, 2002.

Tri-X has great latitude, and Xtol 1:1 will give you fine enough grain that it won't be an issue with an 8X10. For that matter, D-76 1:1 isn't too bad, either. Because of its latitude in both exposure and processing, Tri-X is a classic student film, and a favorite of many photojournalists as well. I say stick with one developer and film; there are plenty of other variables in the photographic equation.

-- Phil Stiles (stiles@metrocast.net), February 18, 2002.

Ilford XP-2(Super) is a 400 speed film, faster than Tri-X, better grain than Plus-X. You don't even have to develop it yourself, just take it to your friendly one hour processor. I rate it at ISO=250 for slightly better shadow details.

-- Bill (bmitch@home.com), February 18, 2002.

Bill: he's starting his --> first photography class <--. Part of any 'first photography' class is learning to process the film yourself - paddling around with chemicals in the dark is part of the technique - and the mystique. Not to dis XP2, though...

Daniel:....Tri-X is a standard to judge other films against - some are sharper, some are faster, some have better tonality, some have worse. It's basic, cheap, predictable and good. The same, more or less, with Plus-X - although I haven't shot it in 20 years, but have just tried a roll that is not processed yet.

Within a speed range (400, 125, etc.) there is just not a huge difference between films. The traditional (non-Tmax, non-Delta, non- ACROS) films are a little less critical for exposure and development, a little less sharp, and IMHO a little more beautiful in tonal rendition than their fancy-grain sisters. Tri-X is indeed a good "beginner's film" - it was great for such 'beginners' as Gene Smith, Mary Ellen Mark, Costa Manos, Sebastiao Salgado, Phillips Jones Griffith, David Douglas Duncan.....you get the idea.

There are a couple of advantages to sticking with the instructor's program - Kodak-biased or not. 1) He'll know the film you're using and be better able to solve problems with you and give advice. 2) You'll be on a level playing field with your classmates and better able to advise them and get advice from them, as well, if you're all using the same films.

Regarding 400 vs. 125 speed - yeah, there will be some more grain with the Tri-X, so the Plus-X will be a little better for outdoor stuff. Have you talked with the instructor about indoor shooting and Tri-X?

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), February 19, 2002.

I too would like to know why to avoid T-max. My teacher (who has many years expirience as profesional) says its a very basic and easy film to work with. I never had problems with it, not even when I had a t-max 400 accidently shot at 100. A little push processing and I had the nicest pics. T-max is very fault tolerant.

In time I also started using Fuji 1600 and T-max 3200 for low light, and illford 50 for portraits. But for normal outdoor work I use either t-max 100 or 400 developped in D76 1:1

As many said before. Just start using some films and see what you like. To start with Tri-x is also ok, but it has more grain than t-max.

here's my link, all shot on t-max (scans are not optimal). There will be more soon as I made some real nice night-shots when I was in Stockholm

http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=426947

Reinier

-- ReinierV (rvlaam@xs4all.nl), February 19, 2002.

"Part of any 'first photography' class is learning to process the film yourself"

Andy - I understand this statement but I have always wondered why it is so - photography at the beginning should be about learning to 'see' and the effects of shutter speed and aperture changes etc NOT about learning to be a chemist!

If your class does not include processing I would certainly vote for XP2 Super - a truly incredible film and probably the easiest B&W film to use - expose at any speed from 50 to 800 with no changes in processing, very sharp, no grain and a wonderful spread of creamy mid- tones.

The only problems you might encounter are shouts from the traditionalists who denounce your 'new fangled' C-41 process film which they can't fiddle about with by altering their special mix of chemicals to 'darkroom dick's favourite brew'!

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), February 19, 2002.

Ditto Tri-X. It's a classic film that's been improved over the years. Personally, I think grain has gotten a bad rap. Most importantly, select one film and stick with it. That way you'll enhance consistency in shooting and in development. Switching around will only confuse things.

-- Jeff Polaski (polaski@acm.org), February 19, 2002.

IMHO for a photo class, any ISO 400 film will do the job. It will give you the flexibility you need to shoot in many different kinds of situations, and will have enough latitude that minor processing errors aren't a big deal.

Tri-X and HP5+ are both great. Just pick up 20 rolls and shoot them off till you know what you are doing.

-- Pete Su (psu_13@yahoo.com), February 19, 2002.

The other day, I went to Serge's Shop, friend and corner photograph.

Asking for fast film (Tmax 3200 for instance) he asked back what was my use.

Then he recommended Ilford HP5. 400 ASA, fine grain (just got a nice contact sheet) esay to push and strong in Error and Try process.

The XP2 is very fragile with manipulation, the ilfort infra red SFX200 is a bit strange to start with, the slides Scala 200 are expensive.

Just my 0.02 Euro here but I think you will get nice marks using this film. Or you can take the Ilford 100 ASA (less versatile and slower).

However, my favorite is the Agfa B+W agfapan, lovely. But I'm not too sure it is easy to use and develop nor about the chemical prices. A very bright and unique tone.

Use Ilford to start with, when your style develops, use something else. Cheers

-- Xavier d'Alfort (hot_billexf@hotmail.com), February 19, 2002.

I agree a photoclass should start with own developping, so you can learn the tricks you can do with that. E.g. push when, as in my case, accidently underexposed. When you bring a underexposed film to a consumer lab it will be ruined. But also to learn that you can increase or decrease contrast. There is a nice example in the book 'advanced B&W photography' of Suess about that. Something I believe you should do yourself at least once, just to get the feeling.

After you have the feeling IMO you can bring any film that needs 'normal' processing to a lab if you don't want to spend the 45min to do it yourself.

-- ReinierV (rvlaam@xs4all.nl), February 20, 2002.