A meeting of two clubs who are the most attention seeking in the country?

Both seem to be obsessed with the word 'big.'

Both claim to have the most fanatical fans in the business.

Maybe both could lose eh?

Although to be fair(copyright P.Beardsley) I like Man City. Well I feel sorry for them anyway,having to put up with the arrogant twats across town and the daytrippers.

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

Answers

Is this a posting from someone is really jealous?

I would love to here your explanation of what you have just suggested.

Like the Murphy's eh?

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

I hate Man City. They are just after your lot and Spus for me (and just before Liverpool and Leeds).

However, the one thing tomorrow night isn't about is you lot (who, I might add, have more than their share of big club pretensions and "stadium groupies" (your expression), so why do you give a f..k?

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

I always wonder who exactly says we are the most fanatical fans in the country. It's not me, or anyone I know or anyone on here. I think we DO have a great fan base who are passionate about football but the hype comes from the media not the supporters, IMHO.

And what's this thing about 'attention seeking'? Can you explain it? Do you think NUFC or City for that matter do something just to get attention. Is playing good football attention seeking?

BTW - Man CIty fans are as arrogant as their near neighbours SK. I know - I have to live with both sets.

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

'Hate' is a bit strong Dougal. We're all just a bunch of sad bastads who should know better and should have better things to do while the world goes to hell in a hand cart.

There was a time, mind. :-{BEERTARKIN}

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

Explanation Andy?

What part of attention seeking dont you understand?

I'll give you a clue.It's a bit like you when you go on RTG:annoying to lots of people.

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

Very droll.

You make a big statement but dont give any evidence to back it up. How are Newcastle United an attention seeking club?

And may I suggest that giving free tickets away to any Tom, Dick and Harry would come under the attention seeking category?

How wonderfull it is to see Mackems reverting to type. Nowt to shout about so they start making fantasy stories about the toon. Noses firmly pressed against the window pane looking on in envy once more. Nice.

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

Reverting to type?

Could that be exactly what you did in that last rant/post?

As for evidence to back it up.How could present evidence? It is just a view I hold,an opinion.

And I will NEVER be envious of Newcastle united as being a supporter of them can quite often mean you have to be the type of person I never want to be.

Again that is an opinion.

I take it your ticket for next week was free then?

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

Lovely. A complete cop out and more fantasy stories.

Even if what you say is just an opinion you must have some evidence to back it up? What, you dont have any evidence? So your just fantasising then?

Another Mackem gem is the "Newcastle fans are deeply unpleasant" slur.

Tell me, if we are so unpleasnt why are we the team that everyone wants to win the league? Even fans of our title rivals are going on record as saying that if their own team dont win it then they hope we do.

Myths and lies come from unpleasant types. Something you would do well to consider mate.

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

Ok then,attention seeking.It is not an exact science but what I see and hear is Newcastle and Man city fans constantly droning on about who they support and how big their clubs are.The 3 legends is a good place to hear it as is talksport.Can you back up your claim that lots of rivals want you to win the laegue? Maybe you have seen it ,maybe I have seen it but it is not 100% is it? And I do NOT tell lies.I have an opinion (I sound like Eric Gates now)based on what I think.It is not a case of right or wrong as there is not an answer to it. However saying "Why are we the team that EVERYBODY wants to win the league?" is quite clearly a mistruth. I for one do not and the majority of the north east probably do not or do not care.Therefore I suggest that you have just made a wildly optomistic claim,based on your opinion or told a downright lie.My point is that an opinion cannot be proved .It can only be defended.Something that you may do well to pay service to mate.

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

Pit Bill, I use the word advisedly: the only real injury I've ever sustained at a football ground was the result of a brick thrown at Maine Road. I've still got the dent in my skull. Hate is possibly too strong but there are very few words that come as close to describing what I think of them.

Kev, Harry Pearson wrote a couple of years back that Newcastle attract publicity, good and bad, effortlessly, while Sunderland and Boro have to do the equivalent of jumping naked on a table shouting "me! me! me!" to get anyone to cast a glance in their direction. This is a fact. Get over it.

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

I'm sorry for doing this but you've forced my hand!

"The future is bright, the future is red and white." Who said that again?

Surely this is a perfect example of bragging how good your club might be? Have you heard any Mags making similar claims? The three Legends? Give me a break, Newcastle fans cant get a word in on that programme for Mackems and Smogs whinging about their respective managers.

There was a link on this board to a site which asked people which team they wanted to win the league. Well over 50% voted for Newcastle. Also, if you read various newspaper commentaries there are references to the popularity of NUFC, largely because of the supporters you are so keen to belittle.

Face it man, your argument is based soley on envy and is more empty than the SOL for an FA cup tie.

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

You lot should know better than to respond to SK when he's got his "wind up" hat on!

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

Another FREE week-end for the mackems. Kev one question for you, you do not want the toon to win or progress in the Cup, that`s fair enough bonny lad , yet in your mind you have this opinion of what a Newcastle supporter is, what he/she stands for, tar all with the same brush, package this nonsense up and at certain times post it. *Why is it then that your mate/s are all Newcastle supporters? time to lie back on the couch, relax,truth will out,you know it makes sense,that`s better. BTW reading Cracker at the moment `The Truth Behind The Fiction`.

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

I don't see how anyone can "feel sorry" for Man City fans.

SK, if you feel sorry for them because they have no success compared with their neighbours Man Utd then is that simply because you can relate to what they are going through?

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2002

Paul,Man citys neighbours are successful,Sunderlands are not. Andyw,at the risk of sounding pedantic "over 50%" is not "everyone wnats us to win the league." And why do you persist with this word envy.People on this very BBS can/will confirm that I was a lot more offensive/abusive/disagreeable last season when we were slightly ahead of you. Therefore your accusation of envy is misplaced.You'll just have to get your head around the fact that there are people in the world who are not Newcastle United fans.The faith and feeling you have for your team is as strong in me for my team.I do not and never have had a problem with envy of another football club.I have too much love for my own.However I do have a problem with arrogance especially when,in my eyes, it is misplaced.

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2002

The thing is, when you first came here, yes you were offensive and abusive, but after a short while, like a small child, you learned that if you don't want to be ingorned you have to be fair mannered and behave well.

But it's not just about success, it's about enjoying the football. I know quite a few Sunderland fans, with my dad's family all coming from Sunderland and quite a few still live there. In the past they would go on and on about how SAFC would be playing in Milan and Barcelona in the future while NUFC would have an away match at Grimsby.

But fair play to them, they admit that they wouldn't turn up for SAFC matches anymore if it wasn't for the emotional connection with the club. As a form of entertainment, supporting SAFC has a value of nil. Whereas most NUFC fans would say that we are playing the best football since Keegan's days.

Is entertaining football not something to be jealous of? If you would rather watch dire hoof it and hope football every week than the pacey pass and move that we are playing then there is something wrong with you.

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2002

I am not jealous of the football that Newcastle play.I am a Sunderland supporter and I will never sacrifice that for entertainment.I believe that one day I will get what my support has earned.

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2002

I didn't mean it like that.

I meant, would you not rather see Sunderland playing pacey pass and move football than their current hoof anf hope style?

I wasn't suggesting for a second that you would prefer to watch the Toon.

Most of the Sunderland fans I know admit that they wish Sunderland played more entertaining football.

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2002

However I do have a problem with arrogance especially when,in my eyes, it is misplaced

You also have a problem with English SK. "Arrogance" is, by definition, always misplaced. :-)

A meeting of two clubs who are the most attention seeking in the country?

And your evidence to support this contention? I've read ads in the papers north of the Tyne here urging people to come to SOL. ("Attention pleading"!) I doubt there are similar ads for the Toon in Sunderland. Most of our attention comes naturally.

Both seem to be obsessed with the word 'big.'

No - I'm afraid that's your obsession SK. I think you mention the fact more than anyone here! Let me put it this way. I'm tall. Not excesssively so but at 6' I am of above average height. I'm not showing off about it, I'm not claiming it as a virtue, and I'm not obsessed about it, but it happens to be a fact. Newcastle is big. If you look at the turnover figures for clubs across Europe, you will find NUFC near the top of the pile. I think it got to 2nd in the entire world, just a few seasons ago. NUFC is one of the biggest clubs in Europe. Doesn't make us good or bad (although at least it's an attraction for top players). Newcastle United IS big. It's just a fact. Live with it. (Sunderland is big as well BTW)

Both claim to have the most fanatical fans in the business.

I'm on record as saying I think there is little difference between Mackems and Mags. Yes, I regard Toon fans as more passionate than most clubs and recognise that Sunderland fans are just as passionate. It's a shame for you guys that you get less to shout about - just the odd victory over your bigger less small neighbours to sustain yourselves over months of mediocrity. I can't speak for City - but yes - we are amongst the most passionate fans around (a fact often attested to in various media) and I think the Mackems would be with us in that category. You can join with me and celebrate the fact or stay there and sulk.

I like Man City.

Yes, I like them, myself. I feel sorry for such passionate fans living in the shadow of their more successful neighbours. I can see that you would be able to empathise with that.

Not a very positive quality you have there SK, this downtrodden resentment of Newcastle. Something of an obsession as well, that you keep coming on here about it. Never mind, Sunderland will have the upper hand from time to time. Look forward to that and look forward to your rejoicing when Newcastle fail to get the title this year and you can make up stories of how we all arrogantly predicted we would win.

Or are you getting very nervous just in case we do win?

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2002

Nervous incase you win? I've almost resigned myself to it.

Again though (not you personally)you try to pigoen hole us with Man city as they live in the shadow of more successful neighbours.As I have stated Sunderland do not.Yet?

It appears to me whenever I make an observation or state an opinion about Newcastle either on here or in the boozer I am accused of envy. Why would I be envious? It would be easy for me to have 'run with the pack' and supported Newcastle but I chose(mostly) not to. As I see it the reason that I'm accused of envy is because Newcastle supporters see themselves as being above Sunderland supporters in all ways.I am not really sure I have the vocabulary to explain it but it is just the feeling I always get.it only REALLY narks me when the armchair fanatics try to look down upon us.

Can I suggest that all the Newcastle songs that are anti-Sunderland are born of jealousy? The Ken Dixon(rip) led invasion of RTG ,was that out of envy or spite?

Maybe you are 'getting a bite' here? But sadly I really think that you believe that you are superior to Sunderland and it's fans.History suggests little difference,so what is it based upon? And when did it all start? About 1992 im my experience.

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2002

But sadly I really think that you believe that you are superior to Sunderland and it's fans.

NEVER tell me what I believe. You are absolutely wrong and if you read what I say you will see that. As for the feeling starting in 1992, my opinions on the issue were formed long before that.

My only interest is Newcastle. I have no desire to rubbish any other club or it's fans and am reasonably indifferent to all of them. I will not speak of what you say happened on RTG because I, in common with most people on this forum, never go there.

Now SK - if you've got something sensible or intelligent to say about football (or anything else) let's hear it - this constant whining of yours is tedious. Surely you've better things to do with your time.

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2002

I must admit I like your style of writing and in particular the way that you claim to not care enough to rubbish anyone elses team but still manage to get a little,stealth-like, dig in at me.

That is a talent not to be underestimated.

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2002

Quick answers:

"A meeting of two clubs who are the most attention seeking in the country? "

Attention seeking in what way? As has already been said, no evidence. OK it is your opinion, but I could say that I believe that all Sunderland fans don't use soap and are inbred - that is an opinion, no evidence at all. (That isn't my opinion btw before anyone uses it against me)

"Both seem to be obsessed with the word 'big.' "

Well, although we are undoubtedly big - average of 6th place finish in the league over the last 6 years, it isn't exactly a point we gloat about on here. Are you actually trying to say we are obsessed with the word big when we quite clearly aren't big, in fact we are a small club, with a small fan base, a small stadium and a small value for all of our players? Sunderland, as has also already been pointed out, are a big club as well. Perhaps not AS big as NUFC - the transfer fees of the past few years would back this up, but you are not far behind, as £2m a year for a manager is in the top tier of pay in the country.

"Both claim to have the most fanatical fans in the business." Doesn't every club claim to have the best fans? There are glory seekers at every "big" club. Newcastle have a fair few as do Sunderland. Every club will have a hardcore group of fans that will follow the team through thick and thin to every game. Newcastle and Sunderland and yes even Man City have quite a large hardcore base.

But be honest, could you imagine a group of fans signing about how their rivals are the most loyal fans in the world? It is just a song, you sing about your team.

"Can I suggest that all the Newcastle songs that are anti- Sunderland are born of jealousy?"

Yes you can suggest it, but it is an odd suggestion. The moment anyone says you have a little bit of jealousy of our current predicament compared with yours, we are shot down in flames - "I am not jealous of the football that Newcastle play"

So the songs that Sunderland fans sing about Alan Shearer getting AIDS - are they born out of jealousy? What about the 2-1 songs, "we beat the scum 2-1?" Surely scum is "looked down upon", to use your phrase?

"It would be easy for me to have 'run with the pack' and supported Newcastle but I chose(mostly) not to"

This sounds like you have chose to be a Sunderland fan to go against the trend. Like it was popular to support Newcastle in your area, so you decided to support the less popular club, the underdog, the smaller club? It's almost as if you started supporting Sunderland out of sympathy for them.

"But sadly I really think that you believe that you are superior to Sunderland and it's fans"

Why shouldn't Newcastle fans think that our club is better than Sunderland? We are on course for European football next season as well as being in the hunt in two competitions still. We are higher in the league by quite a margin, not the measly six points that Sunderland managed when they were above recently. As for the fans there is no argument as we are basically the same people, with a slightly different accent and different colour team shirts. As people we are basically the same.

I ask this question, do you think that Sunderland are better than Newcastle, or that Sunderland fans are better than Newcastle fans?

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2002

No Paul,I think we are more similar than some people care to mention.

-- Anonymous, February 17, 2002

"I am a Sunderland supporter and I will never sacrifice that for entertainment."

Then you have really chosen the right team to follow :-)

"I believe that one day I will get what my support has earned."

A diagnosis of manic depression? A year's supply of Fife's bananas? A free ticket?

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2002

Isn't it amazing the way you lot all pull together.

Imagine the quandry if one of you agreed with me and felt the need to comment on one of your own's postings.

Fairminded? Not at all.

Swingers? Ooh now theres a thought!

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2002

Check your original posting SK, do you honestly think anyone on here is going to agree with what you said?

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2002

Not really with the origional.I was refering to the way it has developed since.

The way people have taking it upon themselves to analize my sentences.

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2002

Kev, speaking as one of the BBS-ers who doesn't know you personally, my experience of your comments is largely of you having a dig. Clearly you're not likely to find many people who agree with you when you open your thread the way you opened this one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as a Mag I suspect I'd get short shrift on a Sunderland website if I posted something similar.

For what it's worth though, I think the attention seeking tag is harsh, especially on this particular board where for some months the vast majority of people have been playing down our chances of winning anything. I've lost count of the number of people who have noticed an incidence of the press ignoring us; generally on this board a least, people have been revelling in the lack of attention rather than complaining about it.

I obviously don't know you personally but it never ceases to surprise me how wound up you get about the whole Newcastle-Sunderland thing. Sometimes you seem to think that us and you are largely the same; other times you seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder. Are we attention seeking? Well maybe some of our number are. Would Sunderland fans also be attention seekers if Sunderland's circumstances were the same as ours? You tell me - Do you think we're much the same? If so doesn't that suggest your lot would be exactly wha too you condemne in us, given half a chance? In which case you should shut up. Alternately, you think we're different. If that's the case then a large chunk of your previous postings (when you're trying to pretend to be reasonable) are a lot of bollocks.

So go ahead, tell us once and for all where you stand. And please spare us the holier-than-thou rubbish about all the Geordie mates you've got and how good you are to them. It's not especially relevant to the issue & doubtless we could all go on at great length about our connections with the other side.

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2002

Apologies for my illiteracy in my penultimate para - hopefully you all gathered what I was getting at....

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2002

SK did you go onto the Man City site and post the same original thing ?

I loved the 'I feel sorry for them anyway' bit in the original quote. Nice geniune touch or arrogance and patronising there, maybe you should have been a Newcastle supporter after all.

For me Sunderland, Newcastle, Man City, Sheff Wed probably, are all from the hugely supported, hugely underperforming set of clubs. We all love our teams with a passion that mediocre management over the years has not been able to destroy. The fans are the reasons those clubs have been classified as "big" by media types. There can be no other reason as I belive that Man City were the last of the three to actually win something bigger than a second division title, when they won the 76 League Cup :0)

The general dislike of each other amongst this group of three may well come from the fear that they become a group of two, or one. On the managerial front Newcastle are well positioned with a guy who has rebuilt the side while lifting them up the table, and has vast experience of doing such things. City have shown in their Cup runs that they should do well next season and play attractive, positive football that will entertain both their supporters and neautrals. Sunderland have Peter Reid.

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2002

Bliddy hell, I thought I'd inadvertently got onto the PM's-Question- Time site.

The way I see it, it's as if each club exists having an allocation of unfilled fan spaces, which end up being occupied to a greater or less extent, depending on the club's circumstances. But the club is the football and this varyingly filled fan 'allocation'.

When I occupy my fan space, I'll mock the fan spaces of other clubs, even to the extent of expressing hatred, but I see no inconsistency in also being able to interact in a civilised and friendly manner with others who, for the time being, aren't occupying their fan spaces.

The difficulty is that most people assume that when a fan space is being mocked, the mockery is aimed at the person occupying it, and I rationalise the inconsistency of appearing ignorant and evil when interacting with certain people in one set of circumstances, and then as reasonably civilised when interacting with the same people in another set, by taking the approach I've just described. I'd hate to think I really had the kind of split personality that most footbal fans display. I'd also be surprised and disappointed if anybody really hated fans of another football club with the vehemence that sometimes comes across here. Fan space occupancy is completely mindless, more like a ritual, but it doesn't mean that when the fan isn't occupying his space, he should be labelled equally as mindless and ritualistic.

So when I'm taking the p1ss, my version is that it's the spaces not the people in them being mocked. If those people are so narrow minded they take the mockery as personal, they have problems, to put it mildly. The real wacky personal stuff isn't worthy of any response, let alone trying to counter like with like. Or maybe I'm just a two faced hypocrite. :-{E}

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2002

"The way people have taking it upon themselves to analize my sentences."

Well, I don't know about others but I abhore that kind of step by step analysis... ;-)

Actually, although I have sometimes tended to this technique I generally don't like doing it. Posting stuff on the BBS whatever your team is to be prepared to be shot at - not that that should happen, but it is the case. Sometimes it's not nice to have every word taken apart and having to justify postings. Personally, I talk all sorts of crap on here, but hope enough people know this and take it in the pub-atmosphere that it's meant.

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2002

oi - did you spill my pint?!

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2002

Fancy a game of darts?

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2002

seen the tits on her

-- Anonymous, February 18, 2002