I didn't want to take up any more space on the Self-reliance thread, but I am now intrigued by the suggestion of using an anchored-down shipping container......When I was a teen ager in Boston, we used to watch the ships unloading these enormous metal boxes held by cranes..is that what you are referring to? Where would a person get one of these???????My thoughts are that the cost of shipping the shipping container to NE AL would end up as much as a rebar-built room...the reason these above ground rooms are so expensive is the cost of concrete and rebar..you'd think cement was made with gold nuggets for filler nowdays.We need to build a safe room attached to the house so in the event that I am home alone and a nasty thing comes swirling down the road, I am able to get inside the room by myself. On really bad days I use a wheelchair, on really good days, I can walk about 100 yards total using a cane..stairs are out of the question.ALL suggestions are most welcomed!

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), February 15, 2002

Answers

Lesley, I imagine a transport company, trucking firm etc would advise you on how to get a shipping container. Someone mentioned $1500 dollars but I could buy one here for about $750 and I have heard that that are, in some areas, almost worthless. So ask around. The ones quoted to me are 20x8 feet. If anchoring one down is a problem perhaps it could be buried leaving just the door end exposed.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), February 15, 2002.

I have seen them for sale here for about $1000. Backwoods home has an article on tornado shelters etc...they are talking about it from a disaster of nuclear potenial. I would think it would have to be at least partially buried though. There are plenty of tornados that pick these things up from the tracks when they are fully loaded and toss them about like so many Tonka toys.

What you need to to with shelters or safe rooms is to stock them with all the things you may need for at least a week or two.

Would there be a way to ramp into it for you? I am sure that it would be better than a wood house, but if it isn't somewhat burried I would think the potential for throwing it about too high to spend my money on it. Even anchored. Just my opinion tho'. Let me see if I can find a link to the BWH article for you....

-- Doreen (bisquit@herre.com), February 15, 2002.

a href+"http://www.backwoodshome.com/cgibin/rd/rdhp.cgi?n=Current+ Issue&url=http://www.backwoodshome.com/current_issue.html">Backwoods Home

Sorry, but they don't have the new issue on line, you can check back in a week or so and perhaps they will have it up.

Also, I forgot to say that where I have seen the containers for sale is in the Thrifty Nickel....I think you have those there in AL.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), February 15, 2002.

I know what you mean about stairs being out of the question ! However, slow grade ramp might work ? I was remembering some old tricks from years gone by where we buried old schoolbus bodies as bunkers. Just passed the windows would work for storm shelter use--leaving the rounded top exposed for vent and light access(also an alternative exit door for rescue). You than build a slow grade ramp to the rear door of the bus. Cost ? 50.00 for old bus, 100.00 wrecker fee, 300.00 for equipment rental (backhoe), operater 00.00 because you know this eccentric old hillbilly thats dying to see your front porch anyway. 150.00 for concrete ramp to back door of bus. 50.00 for grass seed and green paint for exposed area of bus. It will only last 25 to 30 years before the elements reclaim it. Total Cost--650.00 Just thinking out loud.

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), February 15, 2002.

I also am concerned about the shipping container holding up in a tornado. I don't know what they are like, but the Jarrel tornado took up houses, slab and all. I can't imagine that being sufficient for one of those things. Saw a video of a tornado that went through Oklahoma a few years back that took everything around except one of those safe rooms, though. That's the way I'd go. There's a builder in Killeen that was doing them for only a few thousand dollars, I think.

Re storage in the room: I've also thought that it would be a good thing to have basics stored there, maybe even make the saferoom the pantry, but I have wondered whether stuff would still fall or be thrown about inside the room, making a hazard. I don't know.

-- mary (marylgarcia@aol.com), February 15, 2002.

A funny thing happened while I was thinking about this problem and I crunched some numbers. I have a degree in statiscal process control(SPC=ISO 9002) and using the averages of those hurt and killed by storms and using half the population as a mean it seems that those hurt and killed never actually existed. No matter what I tried on the 7 charts did they show up. That is the proplem when you reduce people to an equation. I think I am starting to understand the writings of Nickoli Tesla a litle beter now.

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), February 15, 2002.

Lesley, you live one county over from a dead steel mill and in a region with at least 5000 unemployed welders. But we are NOWHERE near the seacoast. Now if you really must insist on using a tied down moveable object think about railroad boxcars. Shorty's Railcar Inc. 892-3131 can give you information and cost about these. Shorty's might also know about shipping containers. The prices may shock you.

Joel has a good idea but his figures are a bit low for our area. Also, I have seen your house and I don't think you would like the decor change of a revetted schoolbus stabbed against your log cabin. But if Joel comes to your house I sure want him to know he's welcome to stay at my house ANYTIME (I might even loan him Matty the Baddie so he could say instead of having the meanest dog in Virginia he had the meanest dog in the world).

But, seriously, Lesley, the great Palm Sunday Tornado of '93 blew away the highly reinforced fences and and cages of the zoo at Crystal Springs. It tore a mile wide path from Ragland to Piedmont over 100 miles on the ground. Where it crossed this road it threw trees through the highway guardrails and blew a bunch of trailers at Knighton's Crossroads into pieces no bigger than beer cans. I've got 28 cubic yards of concrete on the roof and I don't feel all that safe against a direct hit by something like that. In fact, those cables I belayed the roof on the upstairs with were suggested by a building I saw down the road from here that had blown off its foundation and onto its side in the Palm Sunday Tornado.

After the Blizzard of '92, the Palm Sunday Tornado in '93, and Hurricane Opal in '94 you can see why the local TV weather people sound like such 'fraidy cats.

-- Rags in Ozlabama (RaggedReb@aol.com), February 15, 2002.

Speaking of the tv weatherpeople, after our big one at Jarrel, I heard the weathermen for the first time, when reporting the approach of tornadic storms say, "If you want to get try to get out of the path of the storm..", go this way, now. Before Jarrel, we were always reminded of the conventional wisdom that it is not safe to try to outrun a storm, and to go to the interior of our homes. I never did run, but we watched the storms closely, and went in the interior closet a few times.

-- mary (marylgarcia@aol.com), February 15, 2002.

thanks a bunch guys, after hearing Rags quoting the tornado history of my neighborhood, I'm going to talk Neil into moving..perhaps to Iran where it's safer.......

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), February 15, 2002.

Wars and rumours of wars, disease and pestilence--Iran, Iraq, China, Russia and a unified Europe---the one name missing is always Sweden. Where is my passport ?

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), February 15, 2002.

Hey Joel, I am pretty sure that Sweden made the EU cut. I saw an article about how upset they were with the depiction of their country on the Euro.

So Lesley....How about a dumb waiter for you? It might need to be a bit larger than a dinner plate, but the concept is really easy. Just a thought!

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), February 16, 2002.

I'm surprised that they joined but their economy had problems(like ours doesn't) but they will not fight, I'm sure ! Sweden's nuetrality is paramount. Always nuetral till attacked --but they are well suited for a fight also !

-- Joel Rosen (JoelnBecky@webtv.net), February 16, 2002.

I would definitely want to be below ground. The really bad tornado that cut across Oklahoma either 2 or 3 years ago this coming May was reported to have actually pulled some storm shelters up from the ground over around Norman, OK. I don't think I would even begin to trust a "safe room". They are far better than nothing, which is what I have, but still, if I were going to pay the money, I'd want to be below ground level.

-- Green (ratdogs10@yahoo.com), February 18, 2002.

I went down to our local shipping container yard today looking at one for another project.

I think they are worth looking at, steel ones 8x20 ft are about US$750 and for the same price I can have a aluminium skinned insulated one of the same size.

There is enough space for a family to live for weeks provided water, air and sanitation were looked after. Lighting is another item as once the door shuts they are blacker than the inside of a cow in there.

My only concern about burying one would be the issue of ground water, if there is water within about 12 feet of the surface I think that big, old and heavy (about 2 tons) contain will just pop to the surface.

Yes, I know shipping containers are to be found near ships but they also travel inland, if they are old they are often not worth the freight back to the coast.

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), February 18, 2002.