I have just returned from a photojournalism seminar in France(Bergerac)and there was a guy there from AP agency who said he had been using a 10 megapixal digital from Sigma.This must spell the end of mainstream 35mm?

I did chat to lots of people,many of who used Leica M,and the 'will they,won't they' Leica M7 debate was being hotly discussed.

-- Phill Kneen (philkneen@manx.net), February 13, 2002

Answers

There's already a thread about this doofus......

-- Harry (harryblat@hotmail.com), February 13, 2002.

"This must spell the end of mainstream 35mm? "

Sigma is a surprisingly good camera company, w/o the cachet of Nikon & Canon. But this year it's 10 MG, next year it'll be 15 & we'll see 20 w/in 5 years. So what? Technology is continuing to move w/ astounding speed.

I've been using a 2.1 MG Canon Elph for about 18 mths in conjunction w/ my Leicas. As prices drop on these super megapixel cameras, I'm sure I'll continue to pick up better versions, regardless of manufacturer. Do I take "important" photographs w/ the Elph? No. Will I in the future? Depends on the overall quality of the camera, the camera's feel, the quality of the lens--all of those vague personal (& specific technical) qualities that now drive many of us to continue to strongly support Leica.

The rangefinder remains a unique instrument. In its form as a Leica, the instrument is combined with superb lens & superb ergonomics. For me at least these qualities create a synergy that I don't yet feel in the digital realm. So for "mainstream" photography, yes, the death knell has been sounded for some time. It's no different than for darkroom work--scanning & inkjet printing is now technically head-to-head w/ the old wet technology. But I suspect old fashioned darkroom work will be practiced for decades to come, as film-based photography will continue to play a major role in serious photography...

-- Patrick (pg@patrickgarner.com), February 13, 2002.

Ahme, Monterey, California, February, 2002

This matter is extremely overrated in importance. I shoot w/ film, print digitally. I actually like grain and sometimes use it to enhance my images. My wife shoots 8x10 and is experimenting with P.O.P., which hasn't been a mainstream process for 100 years. Both of us get looks that would not be possible with digital cameras.

-- Peter Hughes (ravenart@pacbell.net), February 13, 2002.

Yes, yes! Beautiful shot & exactly what I've been saying. Much of my work is pinhole using an old 6x6 wooden box. The tool per se is largely irrelevent. Only the image matters.

-- Patrick (pg@patrickgarner.com), February 13, 2002.

Harry's above response to Phil's posting is an example, plain and simple, of egregious bad manners; not for a 6 year old, but for a supposed adult.

Whatever one thinks of a posting or the person who posts it, there is not need at all to get personal. It would be very simple and tempting to get personal about Harry, but I will not.

Civil discourse still applies even tho' we are anonymous here.

Cheers, specially to Harry. :>)

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richardjx@hotmail.com), February 13, 2002.

What was the seminar about Phil?

-- Joss Murry(Portsmouth UK) (jossmurry@joss75.com), February 13, 2002.

It was organised by Nikon(France) and Fuji(France) as a promo' for new gear(well,when I say new I mean D1x,etc).Fuji are now offering a new printing service where you give them a neg and they print 4 photo's on one sheet,but all printed in a different style.You then decide which you like best and they print all of your work in that style.Exellent idea I thought.

Nikon did a talk on digital imaging and said that they are commited to 'traditional' film for at least the next 30 to 50 years! That's forward planning at its best!

-- Phill Kneen (philkneen@manx.net), February 13, 2002.

30 to 50 years? are you sure? That seems a huge timescale even by huge international company planning.

I think you must have mis-heard Phil.

-- Harry (harryblat@hotmail.com), February 13, 2002.

No Harry,I didn't mis-hear and although my French isn't 100% perfect,I can still understand basic numbers.

-- Phill (philkneen@manx.net), February 13, 2002.

"...they are commited to 'traditional' film for at least the next 30 to 50 years! That's forward planning at its best!"

Perfect! I should just about be dead by then... or at least blind.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), February 13, 2002.

Nikon did a talk on digital imaging and said that they are commited to 'traditional' film for at least the next 30 to 50 years!

Oh yeah! Now thats what I'm talkin' about!

Its nice to see the marketing department at Nikon set the stage for acknowledging the inevitable bottleneck of digital photography.

-- John (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), February 13, 2002.

They basically said that digital and film would work side by side and although alot of photographic fields have switched to digital,pro's would ALWAYS need a reliable film camera such as the FM2 and until someone invents a digital camera that doesn't need batteries,this will remain the case.

-- Phill Kneen (philkneen@manx.net), February 13, 2002.

I have to disagree with you Phil.Are you trying to say that photojournalists and press photographers are still using film along with their digital cameras? I don't think so!

I can't see any future for film appart from the 'belt and braces' nonsence that you are talking about.

-- Joss Murry (jossmurry@joss75.com), February 13, 2002.

Aaarh....but Joss,you aren't disagreeing with me,you are disagreeing with one of the 3 biggest film manufacturers in the world,the people who ultimatly dictate the market.

But,yes lots of photojournalists keep a film camera tucked away inside their digital bags,lots of photojournalist/documentary photographers(me for one) don't even use digital(I have to admit I have a compact digital in my bag for record shots/notes).

Belt and braces nonsense? mmmmmm,you aren't a professional are you.Belt and braces means bread on the table Joss.

-- Phil Kneen (philkneen@manx.net), February 13, 2002.

I bet Phil is one of these pro's who carries 8 cameras,20 lenses,4 flashes,etc,etc,etc,etc and only uses 1 autofocus body with a zoom and all set to auto!

-- Joss (jossmurry@joss75.com), February 13, 2002.

Well, Nikon does make film cameras doesn't it? I can't imagine they're serious about the 50 year business, but obviously they'll be wanting to keep up consumer interest in their film stuff until they decide to drop it. Which I would be surprised if it's further than ten years away.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), February 13, 2002.

I would imagine that things will remain the same for another 5 years or so,after that we will see film becoming more of a specialist form of photography.I can't see that in our lifetime we will see the complete demise of film.

I have to be honest and say that I just don't care anyway.I'm due to retire in 2022( When I'm 52)and I will be happy to just potter around in my floating robotic car taking snaps with my thought control digital 3d camera module which is permanently mounted behind my eye........

-- Phill Kneen (philkneen@manx.net), February 13, 2002.

Yeah I'm looking forward to thast too. Like the William Gibson soap opera stars with their Sanyo eyeballs.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), February 13, 2002.

I really hope I'm not poking anybody but I believe digital is the future. Canon and Nikon among others are building the future and I'm not sure Leica is. Perhaps I wish they were. I love my Leicas having used Ms for 30+ years but I am not sure I couldn't do nost of what I currently do with a Canon G2 prosumer p&s for $1000 with a big card or micro drive. I began using Canon eos last year and have a bunch of lenses that will be usable on a digital slr when I think the price/quality reaches me. Right now the start up for good digital work is high but it will grow smaller. Good photographers will be good whatever medium they use and the mind is still the most important organ for producing the images you want. Good luck.

-- Don (wgpinc@yahoo.com), February 13, 2002.

I remember the whole CD versus Vinyl debate in the mid 80's.According to most people we shouldn't be able to buy vinyl now 20 years later.I was in a shop in Germany a few weeks ago that sold nothing but vinyl,turntables,etc.Far from being out dated and obsolete there was stuff that is very high-tech,new bits come out all the time.

This film/digital debate will be going on for years...............and years.

-- Phill Kneen (philkneen@manx.net), February 13, 2002.

Just got done reading an intial report on the new chip powering that Sigma camera, and it may well be the biggest breakthrough yet for digital photography. It captures 3 colors in every pixel, and is unlike any other pickup on the market. The Sigma SLR body using it will retail for under $3000 and the color and detail reproduced by this chip is said to rival drum scans of high quality slides, but with no grain at all. Read about it here if you are interested.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02021101foveonx3.asp

Just shows me to wait another year or so before going digital.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), February 13, 2002.

I think a lot of us look to the wrong piece of hardware when we talk about digital replacing film. Where the vast majority of film sales are (Isell the stuff for a living - have for 15 years) is not you or I, the snobbish Leica user ;-) or the jet setting, fun loving pro ;-) but the millions of 'joe blo's' who shot three or four rolls a year. And many of these people are not as computer literate as we all is. So until you can look at your computer and say 'please print the images form flashcard b' (and this will eventually happen), there will still be a lot film being sold. For every one of you out there debating this - how many relatives do you have who happily shoot their film at birthdays and Christmas......

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), February 13, 2002.

"the biggest breakthrough yet for digital photography."

What? Yet another "biggest breakthrough"? Endless, endless hype and marketing drivel. It just goes on and on! Sorry to be so cynical...

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), February 14, 2002.