What occupation uses Algebra? (Homeschooling)greenspun.com : LUSENET : Countryside : One Thread |
My daughter is 15 and wants to know why she needs to learn algabra? Funny thing, I can remember asking that same question when I was her age. I did suffer throught Algabra I and Algabra II in high school, but have never used the information. The only occupation that I have found,( upon surveying those over 30 years old), that have actually used the material learned were engineers. She would like to use the time to learn something else. So why did 100% of us when I was in high school take this class? Who of you have really found it imperative that you needed the information? Thanks!
-- Marie (Mamafila@aol.com), February 12, 2002
I use some algebra in my job as a commercial real estate appraiser. My applications are mostly limited to financial analysis, etc. But the main reason for algebra, and most other advanced mathematics is...they train your brain to think, analyze, and solve problems. You may never use algebra again, but anyone who can master it will greatly benefit in other areas.
-- SteveD(TX) (smdann@swbell.net), February 12, 2002.
Simple algebra is used by all who want to solve for an unknown ie: 3x =y when x=cost of feed per ton y=cost of 3 tons of feed. Any number of other examples could be usedGod Bless
-- Charles Steen (xbeeman412@aol.com), February 12, 2002.
Banking and any financial business, accounting, inventory control, budgeting, etc. Any loan payments mortgages etc, use algebra, calculating present value, risk assesment, bond valuation, exchange rates, futures trading....... Farming for ration formulation, mixing some meds., planting X populations per acre, herbicide and nutriant application, inbreeding co-efficiants, EPD's and MTI's. Surveying, navigation, flying, mechanic................ you know it might be faster to list occupations that DON'T use algebra at some level. You probably don't even realize your using it a lot of the time! Learning mathematics is about learning how to rationalize problems and "think" to a degree. Do you check your loan payments the bank manager tells you you'll owe if you borrow X amount from them? I do.
-- Ross (amulet@istar.ca), February 12, 2002.
Dear Marie, Algebra and all basic classes are needed for a well rounded education. You use algebra every day when you go to the store and figure out which jar is cheaper-the 32 oz. at $1.59 or the 16 oz. at $.89. When you are debating taking out a loan and you're wondering what's the difference between a fixed rate loan for 30 years and how much it will be verses a variable loan based on current interest rates with a one percent cap each year. How much will that 5 percent raise be in your paycheck? How much is that increase in taxes from Uncle Sam going to impact my finances? Most important, everything that you do to expand your brain to think logically and keep your choices for the future open is never a waste of time. If my children were to spend their whole life homesteading or doing brain surgery, I would want each and every one of them to have a good foundation including algebra. You don't every want your daughter to be overwelmed by math and be taken advantage of by a banker or sham artist. No one is going to college tody without a basic mastery of algebra and English. We must continue to encourage and motivate our children to the highest standards. Never settle for what you think you will need or not need.
-- Maureen in Ga (volfamily52@aol.com), February 12, 2002.
I use algebra frequently in making recipe conversions by making ratio comparisons. The most recent example that comes to mind was deciding to dehydrate some of my excess onion harvest which was starting to sprout. I discovered that 12 cups of fresh onions turned into 3 cups of dehydrated onions. I wanted 50 cups of fresh onions for tomato sauce next summer, so how many cups of dehydrated onions should I store? Solve the formula 12:3=50:x, and you figure out that you need to have 12.5 cups of dehydrated onions for the sauce. It's too bad math in school isn't better taught to show people how practical it is. I try, often try in vain, to remember geometry formulas when making quilts or even building odd shaped raised garden beds.
-- Katherine in KY (KyKatherine@Yahoo.com), February 12, 2002.
Here are a few additional...1. Chemists 2. Physicists 3. Molecular Biologists 4. Machinists 5. Farmers 6. Ecologists 7. Physicians
I use algebra every day to work through yield projections, machine settings in the shop, mortgage ammortization, fertilizer calculations and comparisons. Cost to yield models, etc. You probably even practice algebra without even thinking of it. Perhaps more important though is that all of the "math" exercises in algebra will make you a more critical and logical thinker in most analytical situations. So if you remember your lessons from algebra, you won't get ripped off by some loan or credit card scheme, etc. I am glad that I had to suffer through it...and suffer I did. Tell your daughter that she needs algebra for survival.
Oscar
-- Oscar H. Will III (owill@mail.whittier.edu), February 12, 2002.
I am a homemaker, teacher, rancher, and rental property owner.I use algebra when I bake, teach, do the bookkeeping, design a building, etc etc etc.
My husband is in the oilfield. He has to figure how much drilling mud is in the inside of a pipe 15,000 feet long and 2 1/2 inches inside diameter. Not to mention pressures, etc.
-- Rose (open_rose@hotmail.com), February 12, 2002.
Okay, this evening when she gets home I will let her read your answers and maybe then she will see a reason to tackle the subject next fall. Who knows she may even end up enjoying the subject. I think I can help her by relating the concepts that she is learning to real day situations that her father and I deal with in the real world. I just need to tune in to when I am actually using the subject myself. It is easier to learn something when you can see the whole point of it. Thanks! Marie
-- Marie (Mamafila@aol.com), February 12, 2002.
Marie,Please tell your daughter that Algebra is the most useful of maths!!!! She will use it whether she simply wants to convert a recipe to a larger quantity or predict profit and loss from her farming operation. So much of what we do is based on simple algebra and having a good understanding will certainly help her. My husband and I homestead, we also both have science PhD's, our daughter is taking algebra in high school. I had forgotten how very useful this was!!! Kim
-- kim (fleece@eritter.net), February 12, 2002.
I remember this conversation with my mom 25 years ago...*****************************************
"M-o-o-m!! Who ever uses this crap!?!", I said, talking about algebra.
"Well, Mr. Phillips does", she said. (He was a member of our church.)
"What does he do?"
"He's a land surveyor"
"Well, I will never do that, I hate math!"
****************************************
Now it's 25 years later and, you guessed it, I am a land surveyor and use "...this crap..." all day, every day and have for over fifteen years. I wouldn't trade the experience of teaching myself for anything, but when I was coming up in the world of surveying, there was many a time I wished I had paid attention in Miss Adam's Algebra I class.
Don't be intimidated by it, it's not rocket science. Once the lights come on, there is no end to what you can learn.
G. Smith
-- Gerald S. Smith (pls5638@hotmail.com), February 12, 2002.
It isn't so much where specifically you use it. Its greatest benefit is teaching one to think logically, and that you really use in most occupations. When you want to argue something, when you can say, well, if this is true and that is true, then it follows that...etc. It makes you smarter. It's like calisthenics or a workout for your brain. It is seeing patterns, and that is a lot of what being intelligent/incisive is about. I find I use more actual geometry in practical daily life, but algebra is the whetstone that sharpens one's thought processes. (And it is just as hard as a stone and I HATED algebra & geometry in high school. But I was good at them. Except I hated having to show how I arrived at the answer, because I didn't usually do the steps in the right order or even do the same steps as we were supposed to do, and sometimes I didn't even know how I got there -- I just got there.)
-- snoozy (bunny@northsound.net), February 12, 2002.
Your daughter's thinking is the kind that modern educational guru's and social engineers love. They want to do away with a broad generalized education where students learn the basics in many fields and instead have them choose a lifetime career and specialize only in that. I'm a Professional Land Surveyor. I use algebraic principles in some of my work. I use trigonometry and geometry quite heavily. I also use english, statistics, social sciences, graphic design, industrial arts, administration and many other disciplines. I have studied theology, have a B.S. degree in Recreation and Camp Administration and studied on the job to become a Registered Land Surveyor, a profession which blends a variety of fields: mathematics, design, law, public relations and business management, to name a few. As a result of my broad educational and work experiences I have developed the life skills to be able to start a home business and take up hobbies I knew nothing about, but was able to learn. (That's the life of a homesteader.) With knowledge comes confidence. I don't think I have ever regretted spending the time to learn something. It is all useful (if I could just remember). Tell your daughter that if she is content to work her life in a low paid, dead end technical job, she should specialize and study only what she feels like now. If she wants to have maximum opportunity for financial success and freedom, she needs to study every subject and discipline in as much depth as she possibly can. With broad and varied knowledge and wisdom, she can achieve great things. With technical training she will just be another cog in the wheel. Planning to be ignorant is really a sad way to go.
-- Skip in Western WA (sundaycreek@gnrac.net), February 12, 2002.
You have had some wonderful responses! This is a great board! I would just add to the above ,Quilting. figuring out how much fabric you need of each color for pieced quilts, how big a square do you need to cut to get X number of yards of binding 2.25 " wide is a tricky thing and without good math skills, Good Grief!! LOL good luck with your daughter, I sure know how she feels, I hated math and wish I had been better at it. LQ
-- Little Quacker (carouselxing@juno.com), February 12, 2002.
Did anyone mention NURSING? Nurses have to be able to use algebra to convert medication amounts and dosages. Algebra courses in college are filled with nursing students!
-- D. Jones (djones@kodiak.alaska.edu), February 13, 2002.
Anything that teaches one's mind to follow a sequence of steps toward a logical conclusion is great! It's like Olympic class sports discipline, only on paper!Algebra is great. (I should know, I had to repeat it in the 8th grade!) I was in the accelerated class in 7th grade, but got distracted with boys and um, lost my focus! *sigh* Better late than never, though...
It's really very useful to know (but shhh...geometry is more fun!)
-- sheepish (WA) (the_original_sheepish@hotmail.com), February 13, 2002.
I was going to point out nursing, but since that's been taken I'll say veterinary nursing - same reason - how much dose at so much per kilogram (or pound) if the animal weighs yay much.Farming or gardening or painting - if the stuff covers so much area (square feet, acres, whatever) per gallon, but you're buying it in quart containers; and you have this much area to cover, how many containers do you need to buy? If it's a spray, but you have a road this long and averaging this wide through the area, can you get away with less containers? How about paint, and a wall with a door and windows? It's all algebra, and paint is expensive, and sprays are VERY expensive.
Assuming you're going to make at least these phone calls in a month and no more than this many at this long, what's the best phone plan for you?
Actually, better fun is co-ordinate geometry - it brings algebra and geometry together, and it ISN'T twice as much work - it's four times as easy - they cross-fertilise and where one approach might be hard coming from another direction can make it easy. And then you use that to sneak up on calculus and BINGO - the world lights up. Not that you NEED to do calculus yourself most of the time - you hire experts and THEY do it - and you do pay them to do it for you all the time.
Of course, THE MOST FUN (outside of - well, maybe it's related anyway) is figuring out how to get debt-free and independent while living well, then DOING it; and you CAN'T have too many tools to help you do that. I can't imagine anything more stress-relieving than having so much income, and so little outgo, that you can't help getting more and more money every year. Set your own standards, but the math helps you figure out how to actually do it.
-- Don Armstrong (darmst@yahoo.com.au), February 13, 2002.
Have your daughter try to take the math these a bit further down the list (will be in the Family/Children category). Most of those required fairly simple algabra.Here's another real life one. I purchased 16-acres (as they say - more or less) down the road. The person who sold it wanted to put a house up off of the road, but the well digger couldn't hit water and they went deep. (I'm about a half-mile away and hit water with a posthole digger in some areas of the farm.) The digger noted her property line ran to the center of Blue Creek so he suggested digging the well at an angle to end under the creek. She declined and sold. Here would have been the problem for the well digger:
Blue Creek is 100 yards from where the well head will be. The elevation from the creek water level to the well head would be 100'. At what angle and distance would the well digger need to dig?
You know certain givens. Point A would be say 5' under the creek bed, 105' above A would be Point B for elevation. From Point B to Point C (well head) it would be 100 yards. What is the distance and angle from A to C?
Algabra one will teach her how to do this.
Most people use albabra concepts about every day and just don't realize it. When I was in Croatia I had to convert kunas per kilo to dollars per pound to get a comparison. In the test I used the windmill example because I just moved one from Florida to my farm and needed to pour new foundation piers for it.
-- Ken S. in WC TN (scharabo@aol.com), February 13, 2002.
Any entrepreneur. I have my own business and use it to calculate what my income needs to be to reach my financial goals. How many new clients, etc. If a potential client needs to see my ad 30 times and on average only notices it 1/3 of the time that I have it in the paper, how many days should I run the ad? If I pay 1.56% in state taxes on each sale, how much do I owe this month? If I need to earn this amount of money, how many widgets must I sell, at 11% profit to meet my goal? How many at 9%? If I spend $400 on the new equipment, how many clients do I need before it pays for itself?And never underestimate how helpful it is on the homestead.
-- Anne (Healthytouch101@wildmail.com), February 13, 2002.
Do your daughter a favor and get her a used (college) texbook dealing with BUSINESS Math--as you would be required to take in college. I didn't see much use for algebra either until I was exposed to that aspect (i.e. the practical) in college.
-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 13, 2002.
These are great answers, but another good one would be that even if she never uses it, educated people know certain things, and one of them is how to do mathematics. I teach english literature at a university, and I almost never use algebra (or the geometry, trigonometry, calculus and advanced math I learned in college as physics major. But education isn't just about how you can make money with it. Whether it ever makes her a dime, whether she manages to scrape through life without baking, shopping, woodworking, calculating medicine dosages, etc... she needs to learn algebra because it is a basic category of knowledge that large other categories of rest upon. She needs to learn algebra so she can study science that might interest her. She needs to learn algebra so she can talk with other educated people about ideas. She needs to learn algebra so she can be involved in the political process and discuss school funding and the national budget intelligently. It isn't just about money or jobs - education has value for its own sake, and she will think better for knowing it.
-- Sharon in NY (astyk@brandeis.edu), February 13, 2002.
Here -- Here Sharon
-- Oscar H. Will III (owill@mail.whittier.edu), February 13, 2002.
Hi,OK enough about what you need algebra for, let me tell you about NOT having algebra in high school. When I attended high school (a very small school) we were told we had to have either business math (bookkeeping) or algebra, calculus, etc. I took bookkeeping. I graduated without ever having done any algebra.
I got into College and what do you think I had to take? Algebra. Well I passed Math 110, but have failed Math 111 twice and had to withdraw/failing the last time. I still do not have my degree as I must pass algebra to get it. I have taken almost all my other subjects (my major is finance).
So, to make a long story short - I understand the simple equations as I have to use them everyday (I am a Project Administrator by trade) and have to calculate costs, arrange schedules, invoices, and negotiate pricing. I am VERY good with a calculator, however, if a long, complex equation is needed, I have to get someone else to do that for me. I am, I admit, mathematically challenged.
You will always suffer for not having had algebra when you are young enough to understand it and learn it quickly. It is kind of like a second language. People have found that if a child learns a second language while in elementary school, it is learned quickly. It becomes harder while in high school (but still can be done). But when you get out of school - no one is going to push you to learn that language including your college professors. They are there to teach you, but it is up to you to learn and do homework, etc. And believe me, it is much harder to learn in college what you should have learned in high school. Most of the students in college will be light years ahead of you in math and science if you don't learn algebra.
I make my son, who is in the sixth grade, and doing pre-algebra study every night as I know if he doesn't get the "second" language in the right steps, he will never get it. And he will end up like me, math challenged.
Trust me, you will regret it all your life (I am now 42) and have a very good job, but I got this far through preserverance and tons of hard work). We tell our kids that you can do the hard work (studying, learning algebra) up front or you can work hard the rest of your life. I have one daughter in nursing school, another daughter taking automotive science, and my son wants to go to Harvard (go figure..). All understand how much easier I could have had it had I gotten my degree. But algebra is a killer when you get older as I don't think my mind "thinks" that way anymore. It seems to be something that you have to train yourself while you are young to do.
Get the algebra - it's tough upfront, but it'll be easier in the long run.
-- Cindy (colawson@mindspring.com), February 13, 2002.
I didn't read all the answers, but basic chemistry requires algebra. Also physics, but physics is just indescribably easier if you know at least a bit of calculus. Of course, you can't learn calculus until you know algebra. Also, farmers doing feed formulations need algebra. And any time she needs to find out how many meters there are in one and a half miles, or any other quantitative conversion (mililiters to quarts, acres to square miles, etc., she'll need basic algebra. How about, how many bales of hay of such and such dimensions will fit in my available space in the barn? Algebra.
-- Laura Jensen (lauraj@seedlaw.com), February 13, 2002.
I thought the same thing when I went to a 2 year technical school and had to take Algebra I, II, and Trigonometry just so I could get my electrical license. I soon found out why. In my occupation we used all that math stuff everyday.My question is: Why do we have to have 4 years of english in high school and then have 4 years of english in college?
-- r.h. in okla. (rhays@sstelco.com), February 13, 2002.
My son decided to go to college, to study to be a Respiratory Therapist.Now he has to learn the Algebra he didn't pay attention to in school!
-- Rick in Southwest WV (Rick_122@hotmail.com), February 13, 2002.
I work in our private church school The program we use is self-study. I am 39 years old and I wish I had learned cared retained-whatever-cause everyday a child comes to me with an algebra question. Now I am relearning. Algebra also teaches one the process of going through things. You have to go thru b&c to get grom A to D. That's a natural life lesson.
-- Karen (abbaskid61081@yahoo.com), February 14, 2002.
In re:why you have 4 years of english in high school and 4 in college. Well, most people don't have to study much, if any, english in college, which is IMHO, too bad(but I'm an English prof, so I would say that.) But the reason that you have to study them in both places is so that college can undo the damage of high school! Most public high schools teach english literature in such a way as to make kids hate books. They think that good books are boring, and they are right! One of my nieces was just doing a project - look up the way 20 different poems use "foreshadowing." That's the kind of inane, dull stuff that makes people stop reading. The reason you take english in college is so we can prove to you that a.books aren't boring b. they don't have to be sanitized (you can discuss the dirty or controversial or funny parts too) and that there's something really interesting and engaging that made those books classics - we didn't pick them to annoy teenagers. Just IMHO, of course.
-- Sharon in NY (astyk@brandeis.edu), February 15, 2002.
I wish the schools would start out by teaching the practical aspects of math FIRST, then the theoretical stuff.For example, story problems such as "We sold twice as many children's tickets as adult tickets to a show, but (name of idiot) mixed all the tickets together, so find the number of adult and child tickets sold". That kind of problem would turn me off, because my answer would be "fire the .....".
I would rather see problems such as: "if your income is so much, how much house can you afford at such and such interest over 30 years"?
Just a thought.
-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), February 15, 2002.
I loved algebra in school. Geometry too. I have used algebra in a few circumstances in the 21 years since high school. Geometry a few times too. But most fun use so far is the current battle of teaching algebra to my son.Algebra teaches far more than what meets the eye. It is a basic switch in the thinking process, from dealing with concrete numbers, to learning WHY numbers work the way they do.
Algebra is a great tool to teach logic! And this, I find,is a greatly needed skill for one about to get behind the wheel of a car.
-- daffodyllady (daffodyllady@yahoo.com), February 15, 2002.