Jaskywhosywhatsy still whinging about Saturday:

"Referees should hold their hands up when they make mistakes like this," said the Finnish keeper on bigfanof.com.

"David Elleray had a good game otherwise but I don't think he made the right decision.

"I was doing my best to get rid of the ball within the time allowed.

"At half-time Elleray came up to me and said I should have thrown the ball away.

"But that's not the rule, I should have been able to kick it clear if I wanted to but that was impossible within the time.

"I knew I held the ball for a long time but that was because I was being blocked by Alan Shearer.

"I tried to release the ball twice but both times he was in the way. I was certainly not time-wasting.

"But the referee wasn't looking at the time, he just counted it as nine seconds and then blew his whistle."

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Answers

wah wah wah

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

This was not the first time in the game the time-wasting twat wasted time.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Erm. excuse me, but the key point was the abusrd way they defended the free kick. Ten men in the bloody wall. THEY impeded their own goalie and basically allowed Al to score. Allardyce wants to consider his own tactical ineptitude if that's how he tells them to defend free kicks.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

He obviously hasn't seen the video of the game. I've seen at lot worse 'blocking' than that. The general pundit reaction seemed to be that he did not intend to waste time and therefore shouldn't have been punished. Talk about having your cake an eating it. I remember a few indirect free kicks under the old law where you couldn't take too many steps. In that situation it was the law that was crass, not the refs. Similarly here. Either 6 (is it 6?) seconds is long enough, or it isn't. The ref can't be expected to guess 'intent'.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

The law says 6 he took 9, simple as that. I can however understand Bolton's beef, personally I've never seen refs stick to this rule and can imagine we'd be up in arms if it had been against rather than for the toon. Not complaining about the three points mind ;-)

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

As I said on another thread, he had plenty of opportunity to get rid. There's no God-given right to allow him to kick the ball unchallenged. WTF does Juicy want? A ten yeard exclusion zone around the keeper? FFS, they already have an advantage over the outfield players in that goalies can hold the ball in open play. An outfield player has the ball on the ground and can be tackled. There is always an opportunity to get rid. He doesn't have to kick it.

Sorry Juicy - you're a good goalie but a bad loser. Take note of what YBR said after the @rse game. Oh yes, learn the rules too.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Does anyone know the ins and outs of the rule itself.

We all know the keeper can only hold onto the ball for 6 seconds, but where in the rule does the opposition player (outside the area mind) interfering with play come into it.

I also recall NUFC being 'done' under the old Steps rule (tragedy) against Monaco (?) in the Uefa a few seasons back.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

The forward can only stand in front of the keeper. If the keeper sidestops and the forward steps in front of him again it's the forward who is delaying the game

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

of course that should heve been "sidesteps" and is probably ither 2 words or hyphenated... but it's been a hard day and I'm tired :-(

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Law 12 Fouls and Misconduct

An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper, inside his own area, commits any of the following five offences:

-takes more than six seconds while controlling the ball with his hands before releasing it from his possession. (+5 others not relevant)

An indirect free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player, in the opinion of the referee:

-blah
-blah
- prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from his hands
-another blah

The indirect free kick is taken from where the offence occurred.

Thanks to 'Fanny' Blatter and pals at FIFA

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

AND!

Cautionable Offences:
A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

...4. delays the restart of play

So, Jasperthefriendlyghost got away with a booking too!

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

I'm certain that 6 second law also states something about the keeper only having to let go of the ball if he is not being obstructed...

I know for a fact I would've been playing holy hell had that been given against us....I personally feel a bit sorry for them for that....

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Bollocks to them. That incredible Lazarus performance of Bobic (?) where he went down in our area ala-Chelsea when we caught them on the break. He was lieing there pretending to be hurt until they got the ball back at which point he sprang back to life in an offside position and rejoined play. It was our lot gesticulating and railing against this heinous piece of cheating which unsettled us enough for their second goal (notwithstanding it being a cracking shot - the circumstances of getting a chance to shoot at all is at issue).

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

except.... it wasn't a restart of play as the ball was "live"

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

There's nothing in the Laws about that Gav, other than the quote above.

Interestingly, the booklet has a number of pictures to illustrate the Laws - page 38 has John Gregory hovering in the technical area (shurley shome mishatke?)

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Anyone else think that Boltons manager looks like 8 Ace from Viz?

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

The goalie got the ball and ran as fast as he could to the edge of the box in an effort to gain from the rule which says goalies can now run with the ball in their hands. At the same time that rule was introduced the 6 second rule was also introduced so that the goalie couldn't pick it up and just hold on to it until he got bored.

The goalie had a few opportunities to release the ball. At each of those opportunities there was not a free Bolton player for him to aim at so he kept moving along the edge of the box trying to find an opening. Shearer at all time was outside the box, and only right at the end did he even move in parallel with the goalie.

Wonderful in the family enclosure the next time he got the ball as all the kids starting counting the seconds. It was decided that the next time they'd start at 3 to frighten him.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Wonderful in the family enclosure the next time he got the ball as all the kids starting counting the seconds. It was decided that the next time they'd start at 3 to frighten him.

Excellent!!

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

I've become used to the ritual cheating, diving, whinging antics of our euphemistically-named 'professionals'. The vehement appealing for a throw in when the player in question has just booted it unimpeded into Row Z, has become the norm.

However, I still have to shake my head in disbelief when people like Jaskaleinin (sp?) continue to protest their innocence two full days after the fact, and having had the opportunity to study the video FACTS ad nauseum.

Surely, he must realise, and be capable of admitting at least to himself that he is talking a load of bollox? In which case why does he not just shut his yap and concentrate on the next game?

We frequently see the very same sort of curious self-denial from the likes of O'Dreary, Taggart and Wenger, and players like Savage, Keown, Le Saux etc. - and you begin to wonder whether these guys really are operating on an entirely different level of consciousness to those in the real world.

The absence of moral courage and personal values in the game is simply staggering. Thank the sweet Lord for the odd exception, like Bobby Robson.

This, of course, is also a major contributing factor to the problems in officiating games these days.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Horay in a previous thread about what would you do if in charge , I stated the 6 second rule and the fact its never upheld. So for me it was not before time, and al was 6foot plus away from jussi at the time , whinging gyet...

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

I have to agree with Dougal on this one. The point is not that the free kick was given - how many times do teams score from indirect free kicks in the box - the point is the total crap defending of it by the Bolton team. They are trying to blame Elleray for the ineptitude of their defence. When the video is frozen at the moment Al kicks the ball, their "wall" is all over the place. All they had to do was stand still and we wouldn't be having this discussion how.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

I haven't seen the incident yet, but per Bobby's posting above it seems as though the key issue is that the attacker cannot prevent "the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from his HANDS". It doesn't say that he can't stop him from kicking it and if it's correct that Al was a couple of yards away then there's no question that the keeper could have released it from his hands.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Or indeed throw the ball away.

There is really no argument on this one. Just because referees rarely enforce the rule doesn't mean a 'keeper shouldn't stick to the rules. Well done Elleray. I have to say if Given had it done to him he would only have himself to blame, he has gone over 6 seconds a few times this season and is lucky not to have been caught out IMHO.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

Every keeper goes over the 6sec rule and will continue to do so as long as they get away with it. Chances are slim they'll be called on it. However, I have just seen the incident and it makes me wonder when the 6 sec count actually starts. Jussi was trying to throw it away while surrounded by players from both teams then waited for things to clear out. Shearer was only standing near him the last second or two....probably after the 6 sec had passed. I've seen plenty of players do that to keepers so it's nothing unusual. From what i've seen it seems Shearer only does that when he sense a keeper's nerves. Rightly so as shown when Bolton attempted to build their wall. Jussi looked to have lost all concentration and was panicking. Allardyce should worry less about the call, and more about the team putting up a decent wall and teach his keeper to calm down and concentrate.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

with Sam Allardyce and Bojangles Atkinsi as guests this was discussed obviously with Gabby Logan, Sam I felt was a wee bit harsh with his comments on Bobby`s reaction ,all he did was spell out the rule. I have watched the incident a few times and my unbiased opinion is, at no time did Alan Shearer obstruct the keeper, too far away.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

I think this point was touched on before, but if Shearer had been obstructing him, why didn't the keeper move to the side and clear? Obviously had Shearer moved it would have been obstruction.

It's also a valid point made above, thet the keeper had every opportunity to clear the ball when he first got it, but he chose to move to the edge of the box to gain an advantage. He only has himself to blame.

-- Anonymous, February 04, 2002

I always hold onto the ball for more than 6 seconds. It takes me that long to get to my feet after making a save.

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2002

...but as you don't do it very often Gus, you#re proably OK.

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2002

You make saves??? What a novel strategy - ToonDownUnder needs you - when are you coming to Sydney?????

-- Anonymous, February 05, 2002