How many of you nice folks out there have actually had any mechanical problems with your Leica M cameras that was brought on by normal use and not by accidental abuse?

-- ron snyder (studio1401@aol.com), February 03, 2002

Answers

1986 M3 wind stopped functioning during shoot in Paris. 2001, two new M6's, one a .72ttl and the other a .85ttl both delivered with inaccurate rangefinders. Jan. 2002 M6 classic film wind becomes inoperative in Biloxi, Miss. during AR shoot., 2001 Brand new 90apo delivered with rough focus ring. 2002 discover CL meter to be erratic. How about R stuff? Still shoot with the stuff but I'm getting to know my local Leica repair man very well. To his credit, once fixed they stay fixed.

Kirk

-- kirk tuck (kirktuck@kirktuck.com), February 03, 2002.

Leica cameras do not have mechanical problems. Their design is truly fantastic. (So are various other cameras eg Nikons F2, F3, FM, FE, Canon F1, etc). The main problem with Leica is quality control. Following are things that I know, that can be out of adjustment in a brand new camera. Shutter speeds out, uneven exposure due to shutter problems, variation of exposure between 2 quick succession shots (at the same settings), rangefinder vertical and horizontal adjustment, parallax not working for 35&135 lens frames, light leaks around the shutter, titanium finish can peel off.

-- sait (akkirman@clear.net.nz), February 03, 2002.

I have never had a failure with an M body. The erratic shutter is a design consequence...I don't call it a flaw, it is a consequence of it being a very old design timed by gears and springs driving a set of cloth curtains. Once the slower speeds are adjusted unless the camera is left unused for many months they stay put. I periodically fine-tune the 500/1000 speeds which can be done on an M6 (not earlier models) without removing the top plate. The vertical alignment of the rangefinder doesn't go out of adjustment, it has to be knocked out. If you don't drop or bang it, it won't go out. The horizontal alignment is likewise, but that is an easy at-home adustment. Basically, otherwise all I've ever done with my M6's is change the film and batteries. One body is about 11 years old and the other is 6.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), February 03, 2002.

Leicas I've owned include an M4, CL, IIIg and an R3. My affair with Leica started in 1976 and I've shot on average 300 rolls a year with these cameras. Total repairs to date (not including a total of 4 or 5 CLA) is one - I dropped the M4 w/Elmar collapsible - the lens didn't collapse afterwords and the rangefinder needed adjustment. Total price was about $300.00 1982 dollars. Of course the people that have had problems will scream bloody murder on this thread and Leica will end up looking problem laden. While the people that have had no problems just continue taking photos.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), February 03, 2002.

I had to get rid of my then new M5 because the meter would shift off by 1/2 stop, which was just enough to ruin Kodachrome exposures, but not enough to notice that it was screwing up. The CL does the same.

-- (bmitch@home.com), February 03, 2002.

Shot w/ a DS M3, IIIC & M6 now since early 1980s. The M3 has worked flawlessly through 100s of rolls & in many harsh settings. The IIIC had a problem with the spool about 3 mths ago & I had DAG fix it--cost about $75; otherwise, flawless. The M6 has worked fine throughout. Any array of SM & M lens from 21 thru 135mm--never a problem w/ any. An amazing track record.

-- Patrick (pg@patrickgarner.com), February 03, 2002.

The only Leica-M that failed me in "normal" use was my "take-apart" Leica, an M-2 that had fallen off the roof of someone elses car and gotten run over by a succession of following cars. I bought it (from the driver of the first car) cheap (50.00) took it apart and got it to work. I took this M-2 apart many times, mostly to satisfy my own curiosity. With each of these sessions I would go a little farther, until I had it just about down to the internal castings. The internal build quality of this camera was truly magnificent! At any rate, at one point I pulled a bit too hard on the top shutter curtain strap, and it came partially unglued. I used what I thought was the proper rubber cement to repair this, but the strap broke away completely soon after this, causing the shutter curtains to form a "V." I eventually repaired this and got it working again. What is truly ironic is that just as I was trying to sell this camera to a guy from RIT, the front element of the 90mm Elmar that was attached to the camera fell off onto the carpet! But he bought the body anyway, and I haven't seen him since!

-- John Layton (john.layton@valley.net), February 03, 2002.

I bought my M2 around 1961 or so. After 40 years I thought the shutter speeds were a little off, so it went to Focal Point. It came back with the speeds right, but then I couldn't see the left half of the finder frames. Back to Focal Point. It came back again with the frames all in place, but now the rangefinder's off. So it's back at Focal Point again.

My M6 developed rangefinder problems soon after purchase (used). One trip to Focal Point, and it's been fine for over a year. Knock on wood.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), February 03, 2002.

M4-2: Had several "usage/age" problems fixed by a CLA - uneven frame spacing; sticky frame-counter reset (often didn't reset to minus-2 unless the connector inside was pushed manually); slightly cloudy viewfinder; locks up when used on any M winder/motor.

M4-P: 1/8th second is off (1/15th); film advance occasionally has a 'break' (as in trigger break) when winding but frame spacing is even; gets uneven exposures with any winder/motor M.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), February 03, 2002.

3 M6TTL's and 1 M6 Classic. No problems whatsoever.

:-),

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), February 03, 2002.

I had a problem with the shutter release of one of my M6 bodies.

The camera's "Point of Release," the spot where you have pushed the shutter button far enought to trip the shutter, slipped a little causing the button to sort-of "Bottom Out," when I fired, causing a delay in tripping the shutter.

Sherry at Golden Touch said this is a common problem with the M6, caused by vibrations suchas leaving it in the trunk of a car loose, etc. She fixed it with no problem, but told me it could easily happen again. Well, I've gone about two years or more now and it has not recurred.

-- Tom Nutter (tmnphotos@erols.com), February 03, 2002.

Both my M-2 and M-3 developed shutter problems over time, each characterized by no exposure of approximately 20% of the frame. Obviously the curtains weren't synchronizing properly.

I had had the M-2 since new in 67' and it took 18 years w/o a CLA to show up. Leica NJ repaired it with the advice to have a CLA every 10 years or so. They also advised that cameras receiving sparse use should have a lens mounted and racked out to infinity and back, along with the shutter run up and down the dial and fired at all speeds to "keep the lubricants loose".

The M-3 was a gift from my Father and it had the same problem when I received it in 91. He had purchased it new in 1960 and it had received little use. Again Leica NJ repaired.

My CL is also 1/2 of a stop off, but has been that way since I purchased it from my Uncle. As it is not erratic though, I simply compensate by adjusting the film speed. (As a partial response to a previous post, I can't ever recall carrying more than one M with me. However, on vacations the CL is a great "just in case" body to carry for insurance.)

No problems with the M-6 other than RF flare on occasion, but it is only 4 years old. (The M-2 and 3 DON'T flare.)

I guess the moral of the story is use them if you have them, and give them a grease job every decade or so. As long as parts are around, they should last for a few generations. While they're not cheap, it's not too bad of a way to avoid probate. Each of our four kids knows which outfit they'll get.

Regards,

Jerry Pfile

-- Jerome R. Pfile, Jr. (JerryPfile@msn.com), February 04, 2002.

I had a used but very good condition M4 s/n125xxxxxx the shutter curtain "detached" from the mounting frame after 10 years of shooting. The repair costs HK$2,800 + HK$4,000-5,000 CLA by offical Leica Service Center. I end up selling it and buy a new M6TTL. I enjoy shooting now but I miss the engraving on the top.......

-- Nick (lulu96813@yahoo.com), February 04, 2002.

M-2 shutter frozen in Vancouver on Oct. 2000. This was a beat up $300 (yes that's right) bought in 1987-or 8. It was having probs for a while.

In December 2001 my M-6 classic shutter froze. The "Authorized" repair people here in Japan wants over 172,000 yen to fix it.

If anyone can turn me on the a good repair person in Japan, in the San Francisco South Bay Area I'd appriciate it.

Um. I turned down the "Authorized" yakuzas' offer.

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), February 04, 2002.

I have had the vertical rangefinder come out of adjustment on both the M6 and the Hexar RF. With the M6 I was unaware of the bump. I dropped the Hexar on the floor from approximately one foot and that did it. Both needed to go to the shop for adjustment.

I haven't had this since I have been more careful with the camera. SLR's aren't as dainty in this regard.

-- David Smith (dssmith3@rmci.net), February 04, 2002.

1/25th and longer speeds in Grandpa's M3 DS went off after 32 years of use. That's the only problem caused by normal use I met with an M.

-- Oliver Schrinner (piraya@hispavista.com), February 04, 2002.

2 M6ttl's, 1 minilux, 1 minilux zoom - Nothing wrong. Only a dud 35 'lux ASPH. Best,

-- sparkie (sparkie@mailcity.com), February 04, 2002.

The shutter jammed on my brand new Leica M6 TTL 0.72 after only a month of light use. Leica USA repaired it under warranty, but I had to wait almost 3 months (!) to get it back!

-- Muhammad Chishty (applemac97@aol.com), February 04, 2002.

I had a dream last night that I was in bed with my M6(Iknow,I know!) and a small screw fell out of the top-plate.When I tried to put it back in some other little screws fell out and the top-plate fell off.I tried to fix it but there was tiny screws all over the bed.Then it turned into an old Rollei 35 compact.I was thinking in my dream that it was going to have to go back to Leica and I would have to use my Nikon gear until it was fixed and that really pi**ed me off..............is there a dream analyst out there?

-- Virgil (leicavirgin@hotmail.com), February 04, 2002.

I examined a used M body in a camera store: in the usual way I tried to remove the back door, and the spring-loaded hinge pin slipped from under my nail, hit the eyelet hinge part on the body and it broke off!

I conveniently forgot the end of this story. But I never remove the back of my own M bodies.

-- Hans Berkhout (berkhout@cadvision.com), February 04, 2002.

I had a dream last night that I was in bed with my M6(Iknow,I know!) and a small screw fell out of the top-plate.When I tried to put it back in some other little screws fell out and the top-plate fell off.I tried to fix it but there was tiny screws all over the bed.Then it turned into an old Rollei 35 compact.I was thinking in my dream that it was going to have to go back to Leica and I would have to use my Nikon gear until it was fixed and that really pi**ed me off..............is there a dream analyst out there?

Yah. Stop sleeping with your M6!

-- John (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), February 04, 2002.

Let us see...

I had a M2 shutter curatin pop out of its guide slots. The next year a curtain came loose from its ribbons. A few years later the slow speeds gummed up. No problems since its last CLA.

I had an M4-2 with wonky slow speeds and had it CLAed it. I have had problems with shutter bounce with all my cameras on slow speeds with a Winder mounted. My M6TTL has had its vertical alignment done twice and it will go for a CLA as soon as the warranty runs out.

My latest M4-2 needed its rangefinder adjusted so I did it myself. I also had to take the top plate off to adjust the frameline selecting mechanism. My 50/2 needed to have its rangefinder cam adjusted. My 21/3.4 optical unit came loose from the focusing mount. And, of course, you have to tighten screws that come loose over time.

Hmmm...I think that is about it for normal wear and tear.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), February 04, 2002.

No problems with M6ttl. Got a new 90 APO with a chunk of dust on the back of the front element. Yikes!! Must have been right before lunch for quality control when the lens went by. :0) scott

-- Scott Evans (scottevans@mediaone.net), February 05, 2002.

I had a used M3 SS that needed a new gear in the film transport a couple of years ago. I sent the same M3 in for an RF cleanup and adjustment. That was it. My 3 M6's, the two M4's I've owned over the years have all bee trouble-free.

All my lenses except for the Tri-Elmar have been flawless. It took 3 tries to get a good 3E - the first two had problems with the detents - one on the aperture ring, the other on the focal length ring. Given that I've owned 18 various M lenses over the last 30 years, that's as close to perfection as the company needs to come for me.

-- Paul Chefurka (paul@chefurka.com), February 06, 2002.

"I had a dream last night that I was in bed with my M6(Iknow,I know!) and a small screw fell out of the top-plate.When I tried to put it back in some other little screws fell out and the top-plate fell off.I tried to fix it but there was tiny screws all over the bed.Then it turned into an old Rollei 35 compact.I was thinking in my dream that it was going to have to go back to Leica and I would have to use my Nikon gear until it was fixed and that really pi**ed me off..............is there a dream analyst out there? "

Funny, I had a dream a year or so ago that I was entering India or Pakistan and the border guards told me they had to hold my camera overnight for security reasons. When I went to pick it up the next morning they had completely disassembled it out of idle curiosity and I had to walk away with a (small and inconspicuous) box of bits and pieces. Very annoying. They didn't even apologise, as I recall.

You're not alone.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), February 06, 2002.

I had an M3 single stroke back in 78 or 79. Sent it Leitz in NJ for a CLA and the problems started.... two weeks and no drops later, the RF was way off. Sent it back and they adjusted it and sent it back with a note of explaination. Two weeks and no drops later, again the RF was way off again - same way, the images were ok from left to right, but up and down they were off. So... I sent it Leitz again, and they adjusted it again. About two weeks (and we're talking about 10 rolls) later, its off again, seeming to go from perfect to off all at once each time. I sent it to Leitz and asked them to no send it back until they put two weeks of use on it. About 6 weeks later, I got the M3 back and it was off (a little) out of the box, and the note said it was the best they could do. I immediately sold it that camera.

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), February 16, 2002.