Censorship,good or bad?

[posted by 195.10.104.37, same as is typical for Phil Kneen]

-- Craig (craigsmith@hotmail.com), January 31, 2002

Answers

RFB. How's that for an acronym? Real Bad. Other than that, I don't feel like pontifcating today.

-- jeff (debontekou@yahoo.con), January 31, 2002.

With regards to civil rights, bad. With regards to children under 18, not so bad. With regards to content on a list such as this, absolutely necessary. We call it "moderation." Moderation, in forum-speak, is equivalent to "content control" which is essentially censorship.

If this discussion becomes interesting (like most of our threads do), then we won't "wipe it!" If it turns into off-topic crap (like some of our threads do) then I'm removing it.

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), January 31, 2002.

Enough is enough, Craig. Take your damned surveys elsewhere.

-- Alec (alecj@bellsouth.net), January 31, 2002.

Ungood

-- Philip Woodcock (phil@pushbar.demon.co.uk), January 31, 2002.

No,I'm talking about cencorship on this site.I've seen lots disapear.

-- Craig (craigsmith@hotmail.com), January 31, 2002.

disappear......like my spelling.

No,posts just vanish.

-- Craig (craigsmith@hotmail.com), January 31, 2002.

Yep, they sure do. It's because they're either inappropriate, totally boring, entirely off topic, or vulgar and/or childish in some way. I hope you're not misunderstanding the Forum Guidelines, which cover the rules fairly well.

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), January 31, 2002.

'nuff said.............

-- Phill (philkneen@manx.net), January 31, 2002.

Are Phill and Craig really the same person?

-- Dennis Couvillion (couvilaw@aol.com), January 31, 2002.

"Please be nice". Hmmm. That's one that's pretty much ignored. Apparently, thugish,abusive and invariably (and much less forgivably) wrong responses are fine. I've got to say it irritates the hell out of me (profanity?) when people are aggressive toward others who are clearly trying to give of their best and who speak from experience (and I certainly do not mean me, BTW - I'm young and foolish). There probably ought to be more censorship, not less.

-- steve (stephenjjones@btopenworld.com), January 31, 2002.

Fascist

-- Phill (philkneen@manx.net), January 31, 2002.

knee a list

-- Phil Stiles (titlepro@worldpath.net), January 31, 2002.

Weren't fascists the ones who insulted and beat up everyone who didn't agree with them? durr, sounds like maybe I'm asking for a little more civililty.

-- steve (stephenjjones@btopenworld.com), January 31, 2002.

Thanks, Tony.

Once more . . .

-Iván

-- Iván Barrientos M (ingenieria@simltda.tie.cl), January 31, 2002.

No Steve,you are asking for more censorship.

-- Phill (philkneen@manx.net), January 31, 2002.

Phil/Phill?/Kneen/Keen? whoever you are - you're clearly a genius - I can't argue with you.

-- steve (stephenjjones@btopenworld.com), January 31, 2002.

You want free speech? Go to rec.photo.equipment.35mm.

-- Alexander Grekhov (grekhov@wgukraine.com), January 31, 2002.

Alfie's revenge?

-- Dennis Couvillion (couvilaw@aol.com), January 31, 2002.

PHIL KNEEN....pronounced 'neen'.Mail me,I'll send you a copy of my C.V.

-- Phill (philkneen@manx.net), January 31, 2002.

and please don't start ganging-up on me because you don't like me or my views.

-- Phill...not craig or Alfie (philkneen@manx.net), January 31, 2002.

Craig/Phil

Censorship is wonderful. Without it there would be no meaning.

In reference to this forum it is the only way to keep this a Leica forum. Without it, you would have to spend hours searching for Leica threads amongst the innane posts brought forth by you and Phil.

Imagine the time wasted sifting for Leica topics with thousands and thousands of threads that go like this:

I'm Phil, and I'm a genius...

I'm Phil, and all films are alike...

I'm Phil, and everyone else is stupid...

I'm Phil, and I have many more hangups to talk about...

I'm Phils friend, and everyone is picking on him...

Expressing views off topic, and not fettered by any sense of responsibility is likely what is getting you wiped. And when children can't control their behavior grownups will have to step in. It's not censorship, its responsibility.

Quit wrecking the civil tone of this forum.

-- David Smith (dssmith3@rmci.net), January 31, 2002.

?

I'm David,I'm a grown-up

I'm David,I have no sense of humour

I'm David,I have no friends

I'm David,I think Phil is a genius

I'm David,I think Phil thinks everyone is stupid

I'm David,I think Phil gives a toss

I'm David,.......oh my God! I'M DAVID!!!!!!!!

-- Phill (philkneen@manx.net), January 31, 2002.

I moderate a forum, myself. Censorship is a fact of life: the US Constitution protects you from the government, but nothing protects your "right" to be heard on a privately-run board. On the forum I do, once in a while people get out of hand, and if it crosses certain lines, out it goes, no apologies. Every once in a while almost everyone gets frustrated and vents, but people who do it habitually and make bad vibes all around, or can't play nicely with the other children (not just being abrupt, but calling other people names, using languate that needs to be removed, etc.)--they're gone.

That's the advantage of a board requiring registration: I notice that the real fruitcakes don't even bother with our board--anonymity (as this board was setup) is an invitation to abuse, and regristration automatically repels the abusers, for the most part, while also providing a way to deal with them.

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), January 31, 2002.

Oh,by the way,I don't know anyone called Craig.If it was a ploy to discredit me,it was a bad one.

-- Phill (philkneen@manx.net), January 31, 2002.

"Censorship,good or bad?"

IMHO:

In principle, I suppose it's a good thing. Most reasonable people appreciate being able to pursue their interests without being subject to material that they find offensive. Without censorship, there is the risk of anarchy.

Some people object to censorship as an insult to their intelligence and feel that the censor is dictating to others and placing him/herself above the law as an arbiter of good taste. I would guess that most of us have experienced other bulletin boards or mailing lists where the moderators display an attitude of egoism, intolerance and arrogance that would repel all but the most sycophantic of their members.

I'm happy to say that I consider the moderation of this Leica forum to be entirely reasonable and I'm grateful to Tony for setting it up and running it in the way that he does.

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), January 31, 2002.

You guys have it good. You don't know what censorship or content controll is. There formerly was a Minox forum on this server and the guy who ran it censored everything. He would frequently pull my answer to something and post basically the same answer himself. God help you if you pissed him off. Definately not a gentleman.

Tony appears to run a well balanced forum.

I've got no complaints.

-- Pete (Leica_RF@yahoo.com), January 31, 2002.

Wait . . . let me zip up . . . this. . . flame-retardant suit. . .

OK, now. I'm of the opinion that when manners and civility are forgotten when posting, moderation (aka censorship) become absolutely essential. When we post on a forum, we're in someone else's house - in this case Tony's, and must abide by the rules of the house. When we fail to do that, we should expect to have our posts expunged. If we do that too often, we should expect to be banned.

While it is easy to think of Web forums as being "public" forums in which "free speech" would be appropriate, they really aren't. They are privately owned and operated for the general good of the community. That general good requires order and rules, lest chaos reign.

-- Ralph Barker (rbarker@pacbell.net), February 01, 2002.

Tony, do us all a favour and delete this crap.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), February 01, 2002.

Do us ALL a favour?

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), February 01, 2002.

Well, Ray, you can always keep a copy for yourself, but I don't see what purpose this thread serves, do you?

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), February 01, 2002.

I agree with the person who said "we're in someone elses house...". Well put! As well I'm glad that Tony lets threads like this exist (I too have been on forums where ANYTHING off topic was deleted. As I've said before, these, the car/watch posts are interesting because I frequent these forums as much to socialize and get to know some of the people (in an online sort of way), as well as gain dry info. Face it, there isn't anything on this site, information-wise that reading one or two good books on Leica would solve. I personally seldom visit Erwin Putts site for this reason - lots of boring info that doesn't change my photographs or entertain in the least. I think Tony is doing a wonderful job.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), February 01, 2002.

the above should say that 'reading one or two good books WOULD NOT solve'.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), February 01, 2002.

This is a thread for Leica users and enthusiasts. It is NOT for make believe surveys. Please keep to the spirit of the thread or Go Away and anoy some other group.

-- David Seaman (david@leicam.freeserve.co.uk), February 01, 2002.

It is my understanding that I am a guest at this site. I can't speak for everyone, but I have enjopyed the forum, learned many things, "met" some other interesting Leica users, and it hasn't cost me a penny. Sounds like a good deal to me. The forum has a moderator simply because anyone in the whole world with an online connection can come here and post anything their fingers feel like typing. To me, keeping things on tract has nothing to do with the word "censorship". Hate to say it, but there are some people who simply delight in disruption. Maybe the only way they have learned to connect with other people is by pissing them off-who knows. My point is, that isn't what this site is about.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), February 01, 2002.

get this off now....wipe it please Tony. People just can't resist.

-- kristian (leicashot@hotmail.com), February 03, 2002.