This may not be entirely a homestead related question, but it sure makes things jump here on our farm when it happens. Almost daily now (since 9/11) we've got the jets going overhead from the local air national guard, day and night. I'm not complaining because I know these guys need their practice now more than ever. I used to think of our tax dollars being burned up in the jet fuel every time I'd hear them, but I don't look at it that way anymore. The question I have is related to the sonic booms we've been experiencing from the jets. And I say experiencing because we don't just hear them. They are an "event" when they happen. The chickens start running around, the dogs go crazy and the creosote gets knocked loose in the chimmey. It actually feels like something has hit the roof of the house! Everything kabooms and shakes! We had two of these yesterday afternoon. I know these are when the jets exceed the speed of sound. We used to hear them a lot when we were kids (near KI Sawyer AFB in Upper Michigan) and never heard any again until we moved here and had the jets overhead once again, and even then they were only very occasionally until recently. For some reason (probably mistaken) I thought that technology had done away with these. Does anyone know why we're hearing them again with such frequency? If I were driving a horse drawn buggy (like a lot of our neighbors do) I'd hope my horse didn't spook easily! Thanks for being kind to me when answering what may sound like a dumb question.

-- rose marie wild (wintersongfarm@yahoo.com), January 29, 2002

Answers

Rose, you need to call the local national guard base that they are flying out of and let them know it's disturbing you. Sonic boom were banned over populated areas several years ago. (By that, I mean that it is illegal to fly at that air speed and altitude over populated areas, breaking the sound barrier.)The national guard pilots can practice easily without the extra show. IMHO, Sounds like some young pilots are just getting their kicks. Best of luck!

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.

tech can't do away w/sonic booms. if a plane exceeds the speed of sound for whatever altitude it's flying at, a boom will result. we live in north georgia and over the past year (not just since 911) we've "experienced" jets from Dobbins AFB down near atlanta grazing the mountaintops. while we haven't had any booms, the sound of a jet about 500' in the air doing 500 mph is very unnerving. some of these flybys have been so close to our house that i could hit one of em w/a good toss of a frisbee. the planes you're hearing are prbbly going faster than 730 or so MPH cause that's approximately the speed of sound reasonably close to sea level.

-- james (james@wireboard.com), January 29, 2002.

I agree with complaining, and get as many folks as you can to do it too. we have a lot of army planes fly over here (and many more at night since 9/11) from Ft. McCoy, but years ago they used to fly really low here for practice of going down from ridges into the valleys apparently, and folks around here complaining (before my time) finally stopped them from doing it over this quiet farming area.

-- marcee (thathope@mwt.net), January 29, 2002.

Is that what that is! I live in north central Wisconsin and I've heard them in the distance. My dog gets excited too. They must be pretty loud! I'd complain too!

-- Ardie /WI (ardie54965@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.

Rose Marie, I agree - gripe. Long and loudly. With as many neighbors speaking up as you can manage. We have problems with the sonic booms, too. Pilots are practicing low altitude terrain following techniques. Here, they come in very low, just above the tree tops, with after burners going full blast. The boom just about shakes the house down around us. And seconds after the first plane shakes the stuffing out of us, the second one comes along and does the same thing again. The planes are flying low in the valleys then popping up over the tops of the ridges and diving back down into the next valley. You ought to see what happens to clothes on the line outside after they blast over!

Like you, I know they must practice these skills, but there are over 30 homes, not to count barns and outbuildings, in this one valley and they are not supposed to be doing this in this area. The jet jocks are being too enthusiastic and a number of complaints will result in their squadron commander "splaining things" to the pilots...

-- Carol - in Virginia (carollm@rockbridge.net), January 29, 2002.

Got them here too, in the upper right cornor of WV.

-- mitch hearn (moopups@citlink.net), January 29, 2002.

you oughta hear the sonic booms the space shuttle makes when it lands out here. Quite a few miles from me but those booms sure carry far.

-- Dave (something@somewhere.com), January 29, 2002.

I am not included in those having this problem, but I would like to say something about this. Studies have been published proving that this type of noise, not to mention much lower decible noise created in factories, results in permanent, irreversible damage to your nervous system and organs of your body. This would also be true of the animals. I wish I could cite study particulars for you (date, where undertaken, etc.), but what I'm getting at is that this can become a legal matter; your quality of life as well as your long-term health is at stake.

-- Dianne Wood (woodgoat@pacifier.com), January 29, 2002.

Of course, without a strong air force, we might not have a quality of life or long term health either. :)

--->Paul

-- paul (ramblerplm@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.

I agree with Paul and disagree with most of the respondents. Complain if you wish, but know this right now: You will be investigated by the FBI and all other agencies will follow suit. You're complaining about increased security in a sensitive time frame in American history seems a bit mis-guided. The booms will continue as long as you live in North America. I welcome the sound of security.

-- matt johnson (wyo_cowboy_us@yahoo.com), January 29, 2002.

Complain if it bothers you. They aren't supposed to do that anymore over populated areas. SOunds to me like they are just hot dogging, something that pilots like to do. I doubt the FBI will come knocking on your door over it, and if they did I'd ring a peal over them, too!

-- Jennifer L. (Northern NYS) (jlance@nospammail.com), January 29, 2002.

You want to complain, because how are they supposed to know if they are sonic booming anyone if they don't hear about it.

-- Joan Murray (alandjoan@juno.com), January 29, 2002.

When you have a legitimate complaint, please express it. That is one of the precious rights our armed forces are purporting to be protecting for us. It would be ironic if we were to become afraid to express ourselves when some government entity is clearly wrong, based on our fear of investigation.

As the publisher of Ms Magazine says, if I haven't been investigated by the FBI, I'd consider myself a slacker!

Oh, and just to point out how differently people view things: the sound of security, to me, is most decidedly not the roar of warplanes over my head, no matter whose they are, anymore than the feeling of security is garnered by the vision of guys in fatigues armed with machine guns in my airport. Quite the contrary on both counts. But to each their own.

Peace. Please.

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), January 29, 2002.

Maybe something is wrong with me, being a lifer's Marine Corps brat, but I do SO miss the sonic booms I grew up with, and when the rare occasion takes place where I get buzzed by a wicked fast loud palpable symbol of our Nation's RAW POWER, I just get allll choked up with emotion. However, I do feel for you that have to live with it every day, impinging on your quiet country days. I guess it might get old after awhile.

-- Debbie in MO (risingwind@socket.net), January 29, 2002.

Ever notice the armed guards with machineguns protecting the airport & the government buildings in many foreign countries? Probably not, if you've never left your homestate. Having lived overseas, it's common. It's also common to be stopped on the roads, asked for your papers, information about where you're going and whom you're seeing, and then being shaken down for money. Thankfully it hasn't happened in America. So, if you have to put up with a little bit of noise pollution, there are options for you.

-- matt johnson (wyo_cowboy_us@yahoo.com), January 29, 2002.

I wouldn't call it complaining. Maybe they don't realize they are flying so close to your home. Let them know, politely of course, and see what happens.

-- mike (uyk7@hotmail.com), January 29, 2002.

Where we live in rural Arkansas we don't have alot of sonic booms. What we do have is low flying jet flyers training in the Ozark mountains. Perhaps some feel safety when these planes fly the mountain contours but I have literally hit the dirt working outside when they have come so quick and low. After Desert Storm, they actually practiced bombing raids at our sole bridge in town. Whether they know it or not they buzz the school yard, our only large building. WE are considered an unpopulated area so I doubt complaining will help much. After 9/11 we had 6 bombers buzz our school playground and had terrified children!

-- kim (fleece@eritter.net), January 29, 2002.

Matt,

I am surprized by your post. Yes I have lived in foreign countries (have you?). I've seen armed gaurds at airports, but we now have them in rural Arkansas as well. While perhaps you are talking of certain 3rd world countries, I assure you much of Europe still considers the U.S. very barbaric in it's approach to crime and punishment etc. I am very fortunate to be a U.S. Citizen but I think it is just plain ignorant to imagine that you live in the only civilized or just country in the world. Of course, I'm sure that is not what you were suggesting.

-- kim (fleece@eritter.net), January 29, 2002.

The sonic booms I can handle. But when the planes fly low enough over the lake to kick up a wake while I'm fishing/swimming there it's a bit scary. especially when you can see the pilot grinning from ear to ear.

-- VickiP. (countrymous@webtv.net), January 29, 2002.

Rose Marie, I know what you mean. The other day I heard the loudest noise. My hutch with the china starting shaking, I thought it was going to tip over! As the noise got closer, the whole house starting shaking. I thought an airplane was going to crash in the house. I went out back and barely looked up and saw 4 huey helicopters so close I could wave at the fellas piloting them. I'm just glad they were our guys. Pretty friendly too....they flew back the same path!!!

-- Annie (mistletoe6@earthlink.net), January 29, 2002.

Kim: Surprised? I spent twenty-eight years overseas, before coming to re-settle in my home (USA) country. I've lived in all the major cities of Europe, building highways, wind farms and skyscrapers; In Central and South America, building highways & hydroelectric dams. Do you know that most of them have constitutional democracies patterned after ours? Granted most Latin american countries owe a lot of their internal organization to Spain and Europe, but very little to America.

Armed guards in the airports. How novel an idea, to maybe protect us? IMO, it's long overdue, as are many other items on the agenda (read PATRIOT ACT) to come. America has become complacement, thinking that something bad only happens to others and in 3rd world countries. America is now awake and mad.

-- matt johnson (wyo_cowboy_us@yahoo.com), January 29, 2002.

Here on the front range of the Blue Ridge Mountains, the Navy pilots from Norfolk, VA and the Virginia Air National Guard pilots fly low- altitude terrain following exercises at supersonic speeds. We know our house is one of the practice targets because every week they fly a few feet directly over the top of the house. Sometimes, they'll rollout and fly back over the house again at a right angle to the first approach.

It was my understanding that low altitude supersonic training exercises over farms and populated areas were supposed to be above hilltops and at sub-sonic speeds. No so here. If these local military pilots continue flying the way they do around here, it's not a question of "if" they will fly an F-18 or F-16 into the side of one of our mountains or hills, it's only a matter of "when."

As a former military officer, I fully understand the need for the training. I have discussed this with a friend of mine in the Navy and have brought it to the attention of the folks in charge. No change. Many of the reserve pilots are commercial airline pilots who think an F-18 is a sports car.

-- Ed (ecpubs@lynchburg.net), January 29, 2002.

I've read through this thread with interest and not a little amount of disappointment about how little we seem to know about military training and how quick we are to jump on disinformation and miss- information.

Military tactical and strategic flight training over the United States is a tightly orchestrated and complex series of events that take place only in designated Military Operation Areas that are described in detail and posted for any and all to find on aviation sectional charts available for a few dollars from the FAA (via your neighbood airport, if you're interested to see the size and location of the one nearest you). In these areas, the fighters come to be directed in their practice by an orbiting E-3, a Boeing 707 derivitave that has its back section filled with flight operations controllers at their radar and other technical equipment. The fighters are directed to their targets by these people and work in a very strict area of operations and speeds to achieve radar recorded scores for their abilities to stalk and hit their targets. Also working in the same MOA will be tankers to refuel the fighters whose range and time aloft are sometimes quite limited, especially when flying tactical maneuvers. Bombers in the mix, if the practice session involves them, likely work at high altitudes, practicing with a ground scoring site and the E-3 control planes evasive and "stealth" manuvers and procedures. All of it is tightly controlled. Everyone involved knows where everyone else is, how fast, how high or low, and what they are doing. Hot-dogging fighter jocks of the earler times don't last in today's high-tech air war world. They train hard in demanding situations for jobs none of us would want them to do, but that someone must be prepared to do if we are to remain free.

Sonic booms are infrequent actually and will be instantly recognized by all the players in this aerial exercise as well as recorded in telemetry. If done, it is because they are called for. And, really, have your lives been so bothered by the surprise of what is akin to thunder following lightning that you have reason to want it to stop?

Give them a break. Learn more before you complain. Your nearest Air Force or Air Guard unit will be happy to show off their mission in as much detail as you want. They train to keep us free. And, they are the best the world has to offer at their jobs because of it. Vern M.

-- Vern M. (modeland@runningriver.com), January 29, 2002.

Matt, Yes I am, especially after the email you sent me. Kim

-- kim (fleece@eritter.net), January 30, 2002.

A lot of people have lost jobs. Families are without insurance. If we all complain, the FBI will have to hire more employees to investigate all of us. Maybe some of the unemployed will get these jobs.

-- paul (primrose@centex.net), January 30, 2002.

Of course there are no hot dog pilots in the Air Force or Navy. At least not until they get caught doing something undeniable such as when they cut the wire on that cable car in Italy and killed all those people.

Wouldn't take much of a search to turn up even more incidents.

Hot dogs do exist in all branches of the service that have pilots. If they're *good* pilots they're tolerated because good pilots are what we need. If they pull some stunt, screw up, and get people hurt or killed they get fed to the sharks.

Nevertheless, in the U.S. there are clear and well identified areas where they can fly at low altitudes at combat speeds and if they're doing it outside of those areas they should stop. Might take a fair sized group to get some wing commander to take it seriously though. The military needs to train to be sure but not at the expense of disrupting other peoples lives to do it.

........Alan.

-- Alan (athagan@atlantic.net), January 30, 2002.

Thanks to everyone who responded. Wow, didn't realize I was opening up such a large can of worms. I'm not un-American, anti-military, or a complainer. I was just wondering..... and now I know. Thanks again. This experience has made me realize that if/when I do relocate my homestead, I will definitely take into consideration what's going on in the sky above as well as on the ground around.

-- rose marie wild (wintersongfarm@yahoo.com), January 30, 2002.

Rose Marie, I spent over 20 years in the Air Force and 5 of those years as a recruiter in rural America. Because my recruiting office was the only phone number in the book even remotely connected to the Air Force, I have received many calls from irrate citizens who've suffered the ill effects (broken windows, falling light fixtures, spooked livestock, etc.) of sonic booms. The remedy begins with a call to the nearest Air Force base or Air National Guard base Public Affairs Office. Your local recruiter has that number and can give it to you. The base Public Affairs office must act on all complaints it receives. If for some reason, no satisfaction is forthcoming, then file a complaint with your Congressman's nearest office. That will generate a "Congressional Inquiry" which will in-turn generate action at the offending military installation. Not all booms come from the nearest base. Fighter aircraft a ferried all over this country on cross-country flights. These get harder to track down, but still flight plans are filed and (supposing the pilot sticks to his flight plan) they can be rooted out. Hope this helps.

-- Steve in So. WI (Alpine1@Prodigy.net), January 30, 2002.

Vern, the location of strategic flight training is not the issue here. I think the people that live in these areas already know of their existance. High altitude maneuvers and refueling aren't mentioned as an issue here either. Bravo for the airmen and women that have chosen this lifestyle. We (uninformed) people are referring to the low flying hot shots that love to show off. As Alan said, they are out there, most of them haven't been caught yet. As far as sonic booms being infrequent, what do you think all of these people on this thread are complaining about? Maybe you should do more research about living where these people live before you jump to an uneducated conclusion.

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), January 30, 2002.

Ok, I just have to ask another question about this. I know what the booms sound like at my house, but what does it sound like to the pilot flying the jet? I would think it would be so loud they wouldn't want to do this or are they wearing REALLY good ear protection?

-- rose marie wild (wintersongfarm@yahoo.com), January 30, 2002.

They don't hear much of anything, b/c they're ahead of the noise. Sorta like being on the tip of the bullet. The noise or "boom" follows afterwards.

-- matt johnson (wyo_cowboy_us@yahoo.com), January 30, 2002.

my wife called the local airforce base many months ago when we were experiencing many *very* low flybys. they said if the planes were over 500 mph AND under 500 feet, then the pilots were in the wrong. the flights tend to come and go in batches, but have not occurred as frequently as they did. i think the suggestion in this thread of taking this issue into consideration for future moves is a good one. along the same lines, make sure to do a quick check for dirt track racing venues if you buy property in the country. we are lucky that the nearest one is 5 miles away as the crow flies, and on friday nights we can still hear them over here.

-- james (james@wireboard.com), January 31, 2002.

Gee Vern, thanks for the private e-mail. I still have to disagree with you, The people on this forum AREN'T "Finely tuned closed minds who do not have much of an idea about what they are complaining about" AS you so gently put it! And your "Considerable education in aviation" as you put it, doesn't seem to cover living with sonic booms. If you think we have "Nuevo homesteader spirit" as you put it, Maybe you are on the wrong board. And-where in my previous post did I call you a name? Best wishes!

-- cowgirlone in OK (cowgirlone47@hotmail.com), January 31, 2002.