Awkward situation I feel. Carragher had just managed to seperate his legs long enough for Bergkamp not to break them both with his two footed tackle when a coin hits him. I'd guess even Peter Beardsley would feel a bit annoyed with such treatment. But you don't throw the coin back indiscriminately into the crowd. If it had hit me, or my son, I'd have had him for assault.

So Carragher gets a long ban and will undoubtedly feel awful about it (c.w. Cantona).

Arsenal need punished as well, not for getting two players sent off, (making ten this season !!!) but for having an uncontrollable crowd. Clearly the crowd could take the Henry/Wenger stance of saying they've never been punished for chucking coins before and they weren't doing it to hurt anybody, just out of frustration at the referee, but this has to be stopped. Highbury should be closed for a couple of games. Sky can still cover the games so the fans can watch them from the comfort of their armchairs. It should help Arsenal focus their minds on their whole attitude to the game, and it may even help Sky realise how dependent they are on the crowd for making games watchable.

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Answers

Arsenal penalties ?

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

When say Highbury closed I just mean games to be played without a crowd, they are still playing at home and cannot complain about any disadvantage. As if they would !!

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

That's a bit draconian, Macca. Although I've no time for Arsenal fans, most of them (like fans in general) are ok enough and to punish them all for the crimes of a handfull of tosspots is a bit much - and it won't happen either. The stewarding needs looking at, I think, to ensure the coward responsible is caught and banned.

But certainly Carragher was in the wrong, and I expect a 4 match suspension or thereabouts.

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Hey Liverpool players are okay generally it seems unfair to single out Carragher for punishment ?

I think the coin was probably aimed at the ref, if it had taken his eye out would it still have been okay. Hugh Dallas who reffed the last really bad Old Firm game was hit just above the eyebrow with a coin, it is a fine divide. Maybe the ref should have called the game off as he felt he couldn't guarantee the safety of the players, or the spectators.

If we accept that Cardiff and Highbury are isolated incidents they won't be isolated incidents. The same 'unfair to punish them' attitude is the one that Wenger takes with his ten players sent off this season. The 'not me to blame' attitude just slowly premeates until we get to Hillsboro and then it'll be the police's fault.

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

It was more than one coin and more than one perpetrator. In recent FA Cup history the FA made Peterborough (I think) replay their tie behind closed doors after a similar incident. Can anyone see that happening to Arsenal?

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Why has this started happening again? Did Leeds/Cardiff trigger some nationwide 70's hoolie reawakening, or was it symptomatic of something that's been swelling up for a while? It feels to me like there's some kind of yob network peer pressure going on - Cockney neanderthal sees Taff neanderthal chuck coins on telly and thinks he's allowed/expected to follow suit. Before long clothheads from the pissiest reaches of the nation's terraces start jumping on the bandwagon. And tearing it's seats out. Bobble hats, flares and scarves on wrists ahoy.

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

it's the jubilee, it's making the whole nation turn back 25 years

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Being short sighted and self interested, when do the bans come into effect for the players sent off? We play Arsenal, followed by Liverpool on MArch 2nd, March 6th respectively.

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Haul the scouse bastard up in front of the beak....at least Eric knew who he was gonna hurt!!

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

was waiting for you to appear !!

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Eric might have known who he was after but he missed him by a mile!

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Did you notice how many Liverpool & Asenal fans were standing throughout the game? Not the biggest crime in the world but interesting non the less. Makes a non-sense of all seater grounds and raises safety concerns too.

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Macca - not sure what you're saying, mate. I'm not saying it's unfair to single out Carragher; he's got what's coming for his rash behaviour. I'm opposed to your suggestion of a series of games without fans for the actions of a handful at best. I think that will build resentment and does not address the safety issue - which is why I think it's a stewarding and security issue. And I really can't see such a ban happening against one of the golden boys teams (esp a London one!).

Dan, I was just thinking yesterday what would happen if a chant of "You're gonna get your f**kin' 'ead kicked in" started up. I'm off to play with my clackers...

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

I dunno what the answer to this is and I don't know what started it all off again. However, I do think @rse have to be given some sort of heavy punishment, both for their crowd control (more like lack of it) and their on-pitch performance.

This is their 10th red card of the season and an unbelievable 42nd since Wenger took charge. IMHO, that is not a coincidence and I'm afraid that fining one of the top clubs will make sod-all difference.

I think the threat of points deducted has to be made. Not sure what that might mean wrt a cup match but it's the only thing that will start to get some of these teams in line. Perhaps a "high water mark" which if exceeded, will start to incur points deductions. Too late of course to start that for this season, but could be put in place for next time.

As was shown yesterday, @rse are quite capable of playing well with a player sent off. Let's face it, they've plenty of practice ;-) I propose for every @rse sent off, another of their players should also be removed from the pitch ;-)

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

I'm afraid it's just copycat behaviour, as outlined above. Three weeks ago it was pitch invasions, before that it was footballers on strike, next week it'll be something like the odd fight in some grounds. Football is so big with so few good stories to go round,so these things get reported on, blow up, blow over, and we move on. I'm pissed off at the ignorant feckers who do it but not unduly concerenced over the long term.

It's not 'going back to the 70's', most of the idiots involved weren't alive then. It's merely reacting to the reporting.

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

And to put my twopenneth worth in about the players, at almost every club they are mostly ignorant, thick yobbos anyway....

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Eh? where have you all been? coins have always been thrown.....it NEVER stopped! it just got picked up yesterday and it's big news again cos it resulted in a sending off....

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Hopefully this retro thing won't go to far. Don't want (somebody else's)warm pee down my leg/in my coat pocket, via the old rolled up programme. Wouldn't mind the return of the bags of peanuts though. Did they ever reach the bloke they were meant for?

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Gav - I wondered whether the media were just tying a few incidents together to prepare the ground for countless articles about 'the new hooliganism', but I'm not sure - there seem to have been several pitch invasion / missile incidents in the last few weeks - more than usual at any rate.

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Tottenham fans throwing bottles at one of their better servants - alias Cambell seemed to be the start of the recent spate...I seem to recall Hoddle NOT criticising his fans too heavily.

Anyone caught trying to smuggle bottles, cans etc into the ground should be removed. Practise seems to be just to confiscate the bottle.

Can't see how you can stop coins being "smuggled in"..perhaps some self policing...neighborhood watch style??? Snitch on your mates!!

Not like a scouser to throw money away like.

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Play behind closed doors - yes it'll punish the majority for the crimes of a few - but it'll concentrate their minds and might just prompt them to not accept the few doing this in future.

I remember the Kop spitting out a scouser who'd thrown a bottle many years ago. More of that and the grounds would be sorted.

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

I'm totally with you Josh.

The probability is that the authorities will procrastinate and under-react to these situations, and thereby forment further problems.

Without question, I would force Arsenal, and perhaps Cardiff, to play 2 games each behind closed doors to get the message across in no uncertain terms.

Unless we quickly adopt a 'zero tolerance' approach to these situations they will inevitably become more commonplace.

For whatever reason, we appear to have stopped policing grounds effectively, and taking no action against buffoons standing in seating sections with impunity is simply a symptom of this malaise. These people should sit or be ejected - even if it means ejecting entire sections.

The PL grounds these days have total video-camera coverage, and why the missile throwers aren't being identified, banned from the ground, and perhaps also prosecuted, I simply don't understand. Yet again, we'll wait until someone is blinded before this is taken with the seriousness it requires.

-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002