I had a first timer doe kindle with 8 kits. They were all stone cold. My question is, is it my fault??? I had a larger aluminum nest box for her to use. Is it possible that the nest box was too cold? Evidently seven were alive at birth and one was dead as there was one pushed up to the front. I ran into the lady I bought some of my originals from and we talked about it and she said the nest box froze the babies. Any ideas here? Thanks!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@yahoo.com), January 27, 2002

Answers

Doreen, I would have to disagree. All my other does that kindled were in alluminium nest boxes also. All their kits are doing fine.I lost 2 litters and they were first timers. Pat had reccomended using stray instead of hay. She said some types of hay dont hold heat. I dont have stray and the hay worked well for the other does. I think it was a first time thing. My first timers are bred back and I will give them another chance. Did you breed yours back?

-- tracy (murfette@stargate.net), January 27, 2002.

Doreen, Are you sure they were alive when they were born?? Where do you live and what is the temperature in the area where the kits were?? Did the doe put any hair on them?? I agree with Tracy, I use hay all the time for my litter boxes, however I use wooden boxes due to the expense for the metal ones. Is the bottom of the nest box covered with metal? It is not your fault, these things happen...it is just natures way of controlling things we don't understand. They may have all been born dead. This sometimes happens when the doe is a first timer...I give my does at least three trys to see how they do. I have one doe that didn't feed her first litter and they all died, when she had the second one, she didn't feed them either, so my husband held her while I put one of the kits up to nurse her, after that she fed them all and they are all healthy today. Things happen and we have to give them a chance to learn...after all...we didn't know everything when we started having babies either !! ;-) As long as you do the best you can with them, don't ever blame yourself. I have a light with a metal cover that sits on top of each of my cages with a 40 watt bulb in it and I turn it on when I know the does is going to kindle soon. It helps keep the nest box warm. I live in Mebane, NC and we had some really cold nights when my does kindled. Hope this helps. I purchased the lights at Lowe's for around $6.00 each. I don't pretend to know everything about rabbits, but I do know there is only so much you can do, the rest is up to the doe. Hang in there, it will get better.

-- Brenda in NC (CherokeeMaiden2@aol.com), January 27, 2002.

I strongly doubt it was your fault, unless purely by ignorance? It happens. Yes, I do recommend straw for bedding (some hays will emit toxic fumes when wet), and because straw is hollow, it will conduct heat more readily.

Metal nest boxes... some growers swear by them, some swear at them... and some just swear, heheheh. Personally, I prefer wooden nest boxes due to the better insulating properties of wood. Metal nest boxes are fine when used inside of facilities, but I don't recommend them for outdoor use. Since I had an outside portion of my rabbitry, I always suffered losses when using the metal nest boxes. Switching to wooden nest boxes solved the problem for me.

-- Pat Lamar (fuzyfarm@3-cities.com), January 27, 2002.

Doreen; Some does are just better mothers than others, but with first timers, allot of times they just arn't "mature" enough to really know just what to do. Most of the time, they won't get the newborn kits covered right away, and if it is too cold they will die. This is a problem with the doe not knowing what to do, not you. Newborn kits can take much colder temps than most people believe as long as there is protection from the wind and rain/snow, as long as they get covered up untill they are dried off. Personally, I don't like the metal boxes because if the weather is cold, they radiate cold, and if it is hot, they radiate heat. I know alot of people though that like them and never seem to have any problems from them. She will probably do well with the next litter.

-- Ricky Jenkins (rjsjrj@yahoo.com), January 28, 2002.

Thanks all. It was just about 30º the night she kindled. I don't have access to straw, but use coastal hay. She did pull fur, but they weren't as covered as they usually are from my previous experience. The reason I thought tthey had been alive was because the seven were all together and the one was pushed to the front of the box. I have noticed my older does do this when one is either dead, or not right.

The cages are in the barn, so there was no wind or water trouble. I think I will rebreed her and let her have a go again. I was pleased that she had eight, but unhappy about the loss of the litter. I have only one metal nest box, it's just that I felt the wood one that wasn't in use needed to be cleaned better, so I used the metal. It has that pegboard bottom.

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@yahoo.com), January 28, 2002.

I agree with Pat in the use of metal nest boxes, if enclosed barn with climate control they are fine. But if real hot of real cold they just don't work for me. I have felt them get terribly hot and cold just due to the weather. I use wooden boxes and scrubb these between each litter and set them in the sun. I have also gone to one box for each doe, her name is on that box and it is hers until she leaves the barn. It does make for a lot of boxes to store and have on hand but I like the idea of not sharing the boxes! I will disagree with Pat (we do that sometimes!) My favorite nesting material is grass hay, it is softer and works well for me, I recently ran out and had to get straw for the last 3 litters and hate it! I feel that the kits may just not have been cleaned and warmed up fast enough, being born on a 30 degree night, sometimes the does just don't get them washed off and fed quickly enough before the kits chill. When kits get chilled they use up what little nutritonal resources they have in their bodies at birth and then are so weak they just don't make it. Rebreed the doe she'll get better with practice and should do just fine this next time. Good Luck Denise

-- Denise K. (Rabbitmom2@webbworks.com), January 28, 2002.

>I will disagree with Pat (we do that sometimes!) My favorite nesting material is grass hay, it is softer...<

Oh, my, Denise! (gasp!) Could this mean that there really ISN'T any *ONE right way" to raise rabbits???? Hee hee! Yup yup... it's all a matter of personal preferences! Some growers will use only pine shavings, too.

Pat Lamar

-- Pat Lamar (fuzyfarm@3-cities.com), January 28, 2002.

Many rabbit breeders, like sheep breeders, lose a bit of sleep when litters are due. Many does prefer to kindle in the early morning, or an hour after the lights come on. Taking the new litter into the house as soon as found, fed and counted, will get away from the cold problem. Just take them out to the mom to be fed early every morning for 5 minutes is all the outdoors time they need. I prefer straw to hay for reasons already stated, but the babies must have an inch of bedding between them and any nestbox surface. Right now, I prefer wooden boxes. Metal may be better for hot weather (keep them out of the sun.)And a layer of insulation, such as cardboard or thin styrofoam on the bottom, makes a difference,too, in cold weather. If the babies were preemie, or weak, they may not have survived anyway. Sandra

-- Sandra Peake (speake@keremeos.net), February 20, 2002.