Future of Leica Cameras

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There has been a lot of talk about the future of Leica. The discussion should be approached in a rational manner.

I have used Leica equipment since approximately 1960. I have used Nikon equipment since the 1970’s. Personally, I prefer rangefinders. This has nothing to do with quality; it is a personal preference. I like Leitz lenses, but the Nikon and Canon ones work very well.

I have done commercial photography when I had no choice. It isn’t a life that I would choose. My good friend does it, loves it, and makes a good living. Of course, he spends more time flying around the world than I do. ;O)

The future of Leitz camera production really depends on whether there are enough of us for them to support that part of their production. There is little that they can do to make the M6 useful for commercial work ; I won’t discuss the R8. AE won’t do it in my humble opinion [although I would like that].

Let’s face it; with the advent of digital reproduction, the most lucrative part of commercial photography can be done with a cheap digital camera and a plastic lens. I have been fooling around with a sub-hundred dollar digital. Prints are awful but can be improved in software. Not art, but could meet commercial needs. If I find a friendly site, I will download one. My personal server [which I don't use to log on here] has too much sensitive information to use.

The question really is, are there enough of us?

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), January 25, 2002

Answers

Art:

Does it matter? If Leica goes out of business, buy up every lens you want and an extra body or two ASAP. That way you'll be set for at least another 40 years or so.

:) Cheers,

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), January 25, 2002.


As much as I would like to believe otherwise, I fear the answer is the future of Leica cameras is limited. With high quality and inexpensive autofocus cameras everywhere, mechanical rangefinder cameras are too expensive to reach the mass market the way they did 30 years ago and with the exception of the aficianados that read boards like this one, there is no reason to believe this will change. Just because there will probably always be photographers who will want shoot film with simple mechanical cameras doesn't mean that there will always be a company that will find it profitable to make them. We can be sure digital will become better and cheaper and for all practical purposes more convenient than film. Leica camera may continue, but the 35mm format, which evolved as an accident of the availability of 35mm sized motion picture stock, may not be the future of the company. Consider Olympus and Ricoh, both of these companies are turning away from 35mm yet they are not going away.

-- Chris Henry (henryjc@concentric.net), January 25, 2002.

To state the obvious: any technology eventually becomes obsolete. Nobody sets type anymore, but we still have newspapers and books. I cannot remember the last time I saw an 8-track and I suppose cassettes will die out eventually. Seems like DVD is going to replace everything. They can be re-written now, so why bother with such linear format of tape?

I think that 35mm and film in general will be around for quite awhile yet, and then there will be the specialty market. You don't see many companies marketing supplies for alternative process photography, but there is a market none the less. People are out there doing salted paper, Van Dykes and Cyanotype prints as we speak. I suppose it will be the same for traditional silver based photography someday. If Leica cannot turn a profit making mechanical rangefinder cameras then they will turn to something else. It's sad to think so. Such is progress I suppose.

-- jeff (debontekou@yahoo.com), January 25, 2002.


Not too sure that 35mm film will disappear anytime soon.

However, I hope (and so far assume) that the designers at Leica realize very well that an M6 Digital evolution is needed and could well secure them in another powerful niche for several more decades. They already have the rangefinder and lens basics down as well as the ergonomics of the camera body. Adding digital capabilities from the pressure plate on back (not a hunchback bulge, but something elegant and unobtrusive) and even re-fitting the new motor-wind attachment as an electronics housing would have a very high appeal to me.

The Leica Digilux doesn't cut it for me. A digital M would. Phil

-- Phil Allsopp (pallsopp42@attbi.com), January 25, 2002.


All I know is that I've been using Leicas since 1974 and not one year has gone by when I've not heard the question "how long can Leica last" at least once.

-- Bob Todrick (bobtodrick@yahoo.com), January 25, 2002.


If being outmoded technologically was a threat to Leica's existence they would have gone out of business 30 years ago. So what if film disappears? Aren't there enough Leica buyers even now who have no intention of ever putting film in them? I've been shooting up a storm the past couple days with my R lenses mounted on an EOS D30. All me can do is wait and watch. Leica has always been an enigma. A cat with 9 lives. Have faith ;>)

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), January 25, 2002.

When is the M7 available I want to buy one! I have a M6 titanium and a R6.2. and a Sony S75. I like them all.

-- Peter Chow (pmschow@hotmail.com), January 25, 2002.

Reports of Leica's demise are premature. You guys all miss the point. A few years back, Leica was the only interchangeable lens RF camera system. Now we have multiple 35 mm systems (Konica Hexar RF, Cosina/Voigt) and medium format RFs (Mamiya 6-7, Bronica). While RF systems are being newly developed and introduced, everyone thinks Leica is going out of business because no one wants a manual RF system? Does this make sense to anyone else, because it doesn't to me? If there were no demand for RFs, none would be made. We wouldn't keep seeing new cameras and lenses come out. Enough of this nonsense.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), January 25, 2002.

there is a certain something to a company that can maintain an "intransigence is a virtue attitude". morgan does it for cars and leica does it for cameras. they may disappear even farther into the niche market, but as long as there are people who desire simpler times there will always probably be a leica market.

-- greg mason (gmason1661@aol.com), January 25, 2002.

When the power has been out for a few days...(ice storm in Quebec a couple of years ago), when you are in the middle of a third world country, when there are no batteries at the local 7-2-11, etc....the answer is pretty simple....

Don't forget your Sekonic Studio Incident Light Meter.

-- Ian MacEachern (iwmac@sympatico.ca), January 26, 2002.





-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), January 26, 2002.

Actually, I was looking for another kind of information. I can find out how many Explorers Ford has to make to break even and how many new model washers Maytag has to make to break even and start making profit.

I haven't been able to find out how many M6's Leitz has to sell each year to break even. I am sure they can occupy an ever decreasing niche market. I just wondered if anyone knew how big that market had to be.

From what I see on most Leica boards, people buy used equipment.

I am sure that Leica cameras will be with us for a while. My M3 is 45 y old.

Another question deals with how the less expensive RF cameras will affect their sales. Those kind of things if anyone knows.

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), January 26, 2002.


just a coment I heard in the lab I use in my home town in Mexico, most local news papers are going to stop paing for film, developing and printing to staff photographers, now they want all to become digital, that made me worry.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), January 26, 2002.

Maybe Leica is shoring up their P/L in the manner that Enron has (to relieve their tax burden) been for the past 10 years....

-- Dave Doyle (soilsouth@home.com), January 31, 2002.

So lets hug a collector today and no more whining about gold plated royal wedding editions.

-- ray tai (razerx@netvator.com), January 31, 2002.


Look, they have a niche market. They can always appeal to people looking to identify themselves with a brand name - hence the Hermes stake. This can be huge, especially in Asia. Additionally, there is a retro movement on right now where people are reacting to the electronic world. It's the best for certain types of photgraphy, i.e. 35mm, 50mm focal lengths, low light... Etc...
You either have to make revenues from high volume or high margins. It depends on how large or strong the Leica niche is. Then it comes down to price elasticity of demand. If less people are buying Leicas how many more customers do they lose if they raise prices 25%? 50%? In a perverse way they might even get more buyers if they doubled prices!

-- Russell Brooks (russell@ebrooks.org), February 01, 2002.

As already mentioned, Leica is surviving because it is positioned as a luxury item, and is attempting to become timeless, like many Swiss watch brands. I don't think its up there yet, in terms of name recognition, amongst the carriage trade, to ensure steady demand similar to Rolex and the rest.

Also, its relative clunkiness works against it as a fashion accessory. In that sense, Minoxes have a better shot at outlasting Leicas. But it all depends on what happens to personal photography. If it transmutes itself into something digital, where people are effortlessly and wirelessly mailing each other their snaps, instead of making photographs to keep on the mantelpiece or in albums, it is surely doomed in the long run.

Keep buying.

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), February 01, 2002.


I bought my first Leica, a IIIF just about a year ago whilst in Munich. Previously I'd used a Zenit TTL, Ricoh KR10, Minolta 9000, Pentax ME Super and a Contax G2. I bought the Leica because I liked the feel of it. It produces cracking shots that I scan into my computer using a film scanner. Would I ever get a digital camera? No way!

If we live long enough to see an M7, then I would hope it was more refined than the M6 TTL. Sadly I'm never going to be able to spare the money for an M6. Any body got a spare I could have?

I love MY Leica.

-- (bancroftpj@freeserve.com), March 05, 2002.


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