Film and Chemicals

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Hello again,

Thanks very much for the responses to the lens question. I must admit that a thorough reading of this website helped me enter the Leica world, so thanks for that too.

I bought Kodak T-Max and Tri-X Black and White film to put the virgin M6 + 35mm through its paces. What a joy just to feel the action, I feel like a 14 year old again, back in the 1970's when the world was manual! Then, since I have a scanner and printer (and reading a few earlier threads, experiencing serious lust for the Nikon Coolscan), I thought why not develop the negatives at home. I am planning to buy the Kodak chemicals, but wanted to tap into the collective wisdom here since I haven't done this since high school.

Is there any particular type of B&W film that you prefer for still life or landscape images?

Also, is there any particular combination of chemicals that you find works for you? Also, powder or liquid?

I was going to get the Paterson reel and tank just to get going. Do any of you prefer the stainless steel setup?

I appreciate the kind and generous advice here and hope some day to add my own 0.02 to the mix. It might be a while!

Thanks again ladies and gentlemen,

-- Vikram Singh (VSingh493@aol.com), January 22, 2002

Answers

Isn't it great? Like you I develop my own film at home and I'm about buy the scanner and printer...I need help too. For what its worth: I generally just use Ilford HP5+ for everything, its a versatile emulsion and I like the way it looks. I know liquid developers can be easier to use, but I like Ilford Perceptol and it comes in powder for. No big deal. I use Kodak for stop bath and fixer. I would stay away from plastic tanks or reels. Spend a little extra money and buy a stainless steel tank and reels. The Hewes brand of stainless reel is best in my opinion, they are very easy to load. If you need a changing bag, buy something big enough to work in comfortably, mine is about 24"x36" and I can easily load a 2 or 4 reel tank in it. I think I paid under $25 dollars at Freestyle for it.

If you're shooting Tri-X and T-Max stuff you might want to use a separate developer...there are others here who can advise you better than I on that matter.

Have fun.

-- jeff voorhees (debontekou@yahoo.com), January 22, 2002.


Vikram,

I'm glad you're enjoying your Leica experience. Great to feel like a kid again, eh?

Film choices tend to vary based on individual tastes and processing styles - grain, contrast curves, etc. For example, although I used Tri-X years ago, I was never pleased with the graininess, and shifted to finer-grained films. T-Max was ovely contrasty to me and the way I process, while others swear by it. Currently, I use mostly Ilford films - Delta 100 for a "standard", HP5+ for moderately high-speed, and Delta 3200 for high speed. I buy the Delta 100 and HP5+ in bulk, and load my own (I like the flexibility of loading short rolls when I want to.)

As with films, tastes vary on developers. Some prefer special formulations, or high accutance developers, other prefer fine-grain developers. For me, convenience and shelf life are also important factors. As a result, my standard developer is Ilford Ilfotec HC, a highly concentrated liquid that is usually mixed 1+31 (1 oz. developer plus 31 oz of water). This lends itself to small runs, and the concentrate lasts for months without aging/oxidizing. I use Edwal dual-purpose fixer - one dilution for film, another for paper. Inexpensive, and (again) convenient.

I also recommend going the stainless steel reel route, rather than plastic. If you buy good reels, and don't drop them, they will be easy to load and last forever. (I'm still using reels and tanks made by Nikkor that I bought back in the '60s.) Much easier to clean, so contamination isn't a concern.

If you don't have a room that you can make light tight, I'd suggest a changing tent, rather than a standard changing bag.

-- Ralph Barker (rbarker@pacbell.net), January 22, 2002.


Hi, I actually just bought some "Sprint" brand chems, based on the thread on this board listed under "B&W - Developing". I asked the question about Sprint on Saturday, the 19th, you might want to check it out. Sprint seems to be a good beginner chem. (Perfect for me, this will be my fist time developing) Good luck, and wish me luck, too! Phillip

-- Phillip Silitschanu (speedin_saab@hotmail.com), January 22, 2002.

I use rodinal for tri-x, and the tmax developer for tmax, but the stop bath, fixer and photoflo are all kodak brands. (I'm sure other brands are fine, too) As to film choices, I use tri-x for everything because that's all i have right now.

hope this helps.

-- Ken Kwok (kk353@yahoo.com), January 22, 2002.


Vikram....I've had great results with the T-Max films and Kodak Xtol neg. developer combo. It produces negs with good speed plus fine grain provided you ALWAYS use fresh chemicals . It helps if chemicals are stored in an air tight tank. I use a camping water bottle squeezing out the air and leaving only developer. As everyone knows poorly stored chemicals makes everthing go to pot. Also a JOBO processor also helps alot. I use a CPE II-Plus outfit which is quite a nice. Good luck

-- Martin (amloft@yahoo.com), January 22, 2002.


Vikram, my current preferences:

1. Ilford Delta Pro 100 and 400 for images that not only are sharp, but look sharp to the viewer.

2. Kodak Tri-X for a tonally rich look.

3. XTOL for all of the above.

IMHO, T-MAX is disappointing. It's high in resolving power, and fine grain, but looks flat and lacking in local contrast and crispness. True, no matter what I develop it in. Delta Pro is also T-grained, like T-Max; but the grain shape is less extreme, which is probably why it manages to give an adequately sharp image while still retaining enough tonal richness to suit me. Just my $0.02.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), January 22, 2002.


Hi Vikram- So, fun stuff. I highly recomend processing your own film. It seems a natural for Leica users, who are into using our own heads for our photography.

Like others here, I suggest you use stainless steel. It's like driving a manual vs. automatic- it might be harder to learn, but it gives you more control. Plus, it is easier to clean, and somehow simpler to me. Jeff suggests the Hewes reels, and I stand behind this whole-heatedly. They are more expensive- like $20 each, as opposed to the $5 cheapies, but they are much easier to load and will last forever, as Ralph noted of his old Nikkor stuff. You won't regret using the s.s. reels and tanks, once you ge the hang of it.

As for chem and film- TEST. Pick one film, and stick with it unitl you know it cold. Ditto developer. Learn about grain and contrast and density and speed with this combination. Be consistent with your times and temps and agitation technique. Stop (if you use one, and I recommend you do) and Fix don't matter, really, in their formulations. I use Kodak Stop Bath, and whatever developer I can get. I prefer Heico Fixer. This is a two chem. Fix, (fix and seperate hardener) and thus lasts longer. These last for up to a year unmixed, in a cool dark place. I mix a gallon at a time and use it for 30-40 rolls and then recycle it and start over. Mixed it can last 2-3 months.

Get a good book on the subject and learn all you can. This can become an obsessive and boring or really interesting topic, but remember to have fun!

PS- if you can, check out www.mvlabs.com Jim Megargee is one of the best B+W technicians alive. His lab MVLab in New York City is one of the best labs in the world- they develop and print for some amazing shooters. They have compiled a really comprehensive book of great technical info, which they sell for around 40 bucks. I don't think this is for beginers, but it is a great reference any good B+W tech. should get some use out of.

Enjoy!

-- drew (swordfisher@hotmail.com), January 22, 2002.


Use Fortepan for an old school 1960's vintage look with lots of silver of course :) :D :O

-- Alfie Wang (leica_phile@hotmail.com), January 22, 2002.

Oh no! Another equipment religion rearing it's ugly head! The eternal debate of steel vs. plastic developing reels and tanks.

I've developed many hundreds of rolls of film using the Paterson plastic reels and tanks. As long as they're completely dry before you try to use them, they work great.

I like Kodak Xtol for all my b&w developing. Nice grain and tonality, excellent storage properties, and cheap. Any rapid fix will do.

-- Mike Dixon (mike@mikedixonphotography.com), January 22, 2002.


Mike,

Leica-exposed film developed in Patterson plastic? No wonder the world has been so strange of late. You opened a portal to Hell! (lol)

Besides, it's not a religion, it's familiarity. Remember, plastics hadn't been invented when some of us started with this stuff. Thus, it's only natural that some would conclude that those ratchety-cratchety things are for the manually undexterous. Others, of course, might suggest that Patterson simply found a need and tried to fill it. Patterson's success in that regard is (in truth) a matter of personal preference and what you first learn on - rather like computer operating systems.

Peace, brother, and rm -r plastic*. ;-)

-- Ralph Barker (rbarker@pacbell.net), January 23, 2002.



Unfortunately I don't develop film anymore and my focomat is in my brother's darkroom. I agree with the others who said get the stainless steel tank and reels and learn how to load them. Easier to keep clean and with care they last forever. Get a really good thermometer. My favorite developer was and is HC110 1-15 or 1-31. It is a one shot and keeps well for a long time. I haven't used xtol but it seems interesting. Mainly standardize on one film and developer, with consistent temperature and agitation. I read that some scanners have trouble with B&W negatives particularly with digital ice. Good luck.

-- Don (wgpinc@yahoo.com), January 23, 2002.

I enthusiastically second what Don has to say. Also, I really like the Ilford Delta 100 and 400 with HC110 1:3

-- George L. Doolittle (geodoolitt@aol.com), January 23, 2002.

That should have read HC110 1:31

-- George L. Doolittle (geodoolitt@aol.com), January 23, 2002.

I second much of what Ralph and others say. 2 caveats: stainless steel reels do take quite a bit of practice and can be a nightmare if you don't buy high quality ones (I actually (shame) use the jobo ones designed for use in a cpe2 (which I certainly don't use for film development because I don't like continuous agitation)) - they're terribly easy to use but almost certainly have more chemical carry-over than stainless steel). The second caveat is re: xtol. I had great results with this stuff but they were never reliable. The internet is full of opinions about this stuff - some saying it is wonderful, some saying it is the work of the dark lord. In my case, it let me down twice (no other developer has ever let me down, ever!) so I gave it the boot. It's probably my local water (actually I use bottled and purified) but there you go. FWIW, the local B&W pro lab uses xtol and his results seem hit and miss too (he's not keen on me saying this to him...) but I have noticed this just by glancing at a friend's contact sheets (who uses an auto-everything f100). That guy now gets me to dev his films... Anyway, it's probably just my water etc etc. but I'd be doing you a disservice not to recommend one of the trad. dev's (such as id-11/d-76) at least until you're confident that you know what you're doing. Very best of luck in any case.

-- steve (stephenjjones@btopenworld.com), January 23, 2002.

Thank you all very much. This is a very gracious group of people and your generosity is much appreciated.

Best wishes,

-- Vikram Singh (VSingh493@aol.com), January 23, 2002.



Hello Vikram, I have been trying to print some B+W pix on an Epson printer but, although the process is much faster, somehow they lack the same quality and character you get when mixing messy chemicals and squinting through a focus finder. With current films, some of your finest grain will come from Ilford Pan F developed in Ilford Perceptol. Agfa Rodinal - a nineteenth century formula I believe - is an old favourite and can be used for all standard-process B+W films, not just Agfa. I liked Agfapan 25 but this is no longer available, so you could try 100. Tri X is good if you like a grainy image. Stainless steel or plastic reels make no dfference to the image - the Paterson is fine. Choice of paper (fibre or resin) and paper developer (Ilford Bromophen is easy) make a difference. You might like to try using a red filter (add one to two stops exposure) for a dramatic sky. I hope you enjoy this classic Leica experience.

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), January 24, 2002.

Tank: Stainless steel all the way - like the Leica, once you get the loading down its actually EASIER than Paterson's ratchet load. And the tank is more compact and (I believe) takes a little less chemistry per roll (8oz vs. 10oz??)

Chemicals: all liquid concentrates

Developer: I use Ilford DD-X with Ilford non-Delta films, but dev. choice varies somewhat with film choice. The nice thing about DD-X is that it's very close to Kodak Xtol quality but in a liquid 1-shot form - saves a lot of time and hassle since you can adjust your water to the desired processing temperature and then mix, rather than taking pot- luck with whatever temp a pre-mixed (Xtol, D-76, ID-11) developer happens to be. Also, it doesn't age from roll to roll - you use it once and toss it.

Stop bath: 5% acetic acid bath (and it IS an important step - it keeps the fixer fresh longer than with just a water rinse.

Fix: Kodak Rapid Fixer - liquid and easy to mix - much faster clearing/ fixing times than other "rapid" fixes I've tried. Separately pkgd. hardener allows me to leave it out when appropriate and use it when needed.

Wash agent: Heico Permawash - archival film washing in 3 minutes (1 min water/1 min Permawash/1 min water. Also a liquid concentrate.

Wetting agent: Kodak Photo-Flo 200 - does the job - seems to work slightly better (fewer dust specks and drying marks) than Ilford or Edwal substitutes.

Re film: I use Ilford Pan F whenever I can get away with it - it allows me to use something other than f/16 @ 1/1000th in daylight and I got addicted to really fine grain. I guess it's as good for landscapes as it is for other stuff. Kodak Tech Pan and the 100-speed Delta/Tmax films may actually be preferred by landscapists for grain/resolution, but I prefer traditional tonality films.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), January 24, 2002.


I use Ilford PanF+, Agfapan APX 25 and Kodak Technical Pan developed in Agfa Rodinal Special, 1+50 dilution

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), January 26, 2002.

Tri-X, D-76 1:1.

I use paterson reels for 35mm, but Hewes steel reels for medium format. The steel turns out to be much easier for 120.

-- Pete Su (psu_13@yahoo.com), January 26, 2002.


I read this thread top to bottom because I am getting back into the fun of darkroom work after decades. I have three AE1P Canons, lenses from fisheye to big white telephoto and a bag full of macro goodies. I am using my spare bathroom, a 50 year old Omega A2 and matching timer, Patterson plastic tank (sorry to the steel fans), and Ilford Ilfosol developer to start out. Everything is mixed in dark containers and ready to go. I have a question for you all - I read that the developer is considered one shot, and out it goes. That has been the consensus, but I have seen some say to throw the stop and fixer as well after a roll. Is that really necessary? Or is there an average number of rolls of film processed where I just just mix new? Books and websites have differing opinions on this. Thanks very much! john g

-- john galbraith (cnsky54@crcwnet.com), March 13, 2002.

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