I have been lurking here for the past few days. I understand that there is a little more tolerance for religous questions here than on Countryside, so here goes:

I am wondering if anyone else honors the Sabbath (Sunday) by not making purchases or creating a circumstance where it will cause someone else to labor.

I was raised with this belief, and continue the practice in my life today. Much of my beief is based on the commandment to honor the Sabbath, and keep it Holy. (I might add that I know about the "ox in the ditch" verses, and that some people MUST work on Sunday).

I am not trying to create a huge debate, chastise anyone, or accuse anyone of not being Christlike, but just curious to know if I am the only one out there with this belief.

If I have posted an offensive question, or if this question is not welcome here, please forgive me.

-- clove (clovis97@yahoo.com), January 20, 2002

Answers

Welcome clove; We don't do much commerce on Sunday either. After all it is the Lord's day. -- You're right this forum is much more tolerant than some. I'm mostly a lurker but do thoroughly enjoy the posts.

-- charlie (charliesap@pldi.net), January 20, 2002.

Romans 7:6; 10:4; Ephesians 2:15; Colossians 2:14; Hebrews 7:18; If you need more, let me know.

-- Kevin (kevinmail@earthlink.net), January 20, 2002.

Clove--We don't buy anything on Sunday. We are all creatures of habit, so when we get in the habit of taking care of business on Saturday, it's no problem to leave Sunday for the Lord's Day.

-- Wayne in AL (wtap@starband.net), January 20, 2002.

This is a lovely concept, but unfortunately, I am unable to follow it. I am a school teacher, and I have cattle to tend to, and I put in such long hours during the week that often Sunday is the only day I have for errands and shopping.

One thing, however, is that I have given up on attending church. The hypocrisy in this small town (not where I teach, thank goodness) is so overwhelming. I find God in my cattle and garden and flower beds. I worship in the grove of trees next to my house. My husband made me lovely mesquite benches there, facing the pasture. Peaceful, filled with God's presence.

-- Rose (open_rose@hotmail.com), January 20, 2002.

Around here we consider Sunday to be a "family day." While I don't consider it unscriptural to purchase anything on Sundays, I kind of think people should have one day a week to relax, focus on family, and pull back from the world. I think that stores should just be closed on Sunday, to give people this chance. Most everyone could adjust their livs and get groceries and such throughout the week. It might make an amazing change in our world! Anyone notice that Aldi's is not open on Sunday? Are there any other big chains that are closed on Sunday? Interesting discussion!

-- Melissa (me@home.net), January 20, 2002.

We try not to not shop on Sundays-, but we're not set in stone. If we had a small emergency, say a burst water pipe, We wouldn't have any problem going to the hardware store-though the only open one on Sunday is Lowes, twenty-five miles away. And I admit, occasionally we've had family come in unexpectedly and we've run in for extra stuff. But its pretty rare, and our small town helps us out by closing practically everything on Sunday, anyway. We save Sundays for rest and family.

-- Kelly in Ky (homearts2002@yahoo.com), January 20, 2002.

My husband has worked for a supermarket for many years. Of course, it is mandatory that he works Sundays, about every other one. This bothers us as a family greatly. Sunday for us is a day of worship and family. I know he could get another job, but the benefits are great and so is the retirement pension. We have prayed many a time about what to do. Sure would be easier if the stores would close on Sundays like they used to.

-- vicki in NW OH (thga76@aol.com), January 20, 2002.

The nearest little town, rolls up the side walks on Sunday. Nothing is open, This is the bible belt for sure, Church on every corner, Which I do not attend, I talk to God in my fields as I walk, My husband has mowed me a path around 10 acres, And I enjoy the Lord in my own way, There"s a wonderful church on Shortwave I listen to in the morn. And no I do not shop on Sundays.God Bless Irene

-- Irene texas (tkorsborn@cs.com), January 20, 2002.

We also believe in keeping the Sabbath, in part, by not doing business on Sunday. Stores and restaurants would not need to be open if people weren't willing to buy then. I will say that when the children were small we made an exception a few times to buy antibiotics for a sick child. But things like tylenol and cough syrup, we keep in the cabinet. And the grocery shopping and filling the gas tank, etc, is done ahead of time.

-- mary (marylgarcia@aol.com), January 20, 2002.

WOW!

I never thought I would recieve so many responses! I also thought that I would have recieved alot of negative comments.

I too, try to pre-plan so I never have to shop on Sundays. I do believe that there are some circumstances that one is forced to buy on Sunday, as with the "ox in the ditch" verse, but I try to avoid those whenever possible.

I too, believe that the Sabbath should be set aside for a day of rest, and for family time.

Most of my friends, believers in Christ and non-believers, think that I am some sort of whacked out, hard core, old testament fundamentalist! I am so relieved to hear that I am not the only one!

Again, thanks for all the wonderful responses!

-- clove (clovis97@Yahoo.com), January 20, 2002.

Clove- our family honors the seventh-day Sabbath (saturday), and have for over 20 years. While most of the people operate on a mon-sat week, ours is sun-fri. which makes for some interesting and sometimes self-denying situations, but isn't that they way of the Cross? Sabbath is spent in worship, corporately and privately with our little family. No shopping, no outside entertainment, definatly no labor. We look forward to this day to rest, relax and commune with God. What a way to end a week! So nope, you are not alone.

-- Lynelle (x2ldp@aol.com), January 20, 2002.

I remember as a HS student questioning whether I should work on Sunday (it was the only day I could work during football and basketball seasons because of practice and game schedules). I worked in a local restaurant which had, interestingly enough, a big 'after church' trade. I spoke with my parents and the priests at my church and school (Roman Catholic, if anyone wonders). The consensus was that my working on Sunday allowed others to enjoy their time with family, etc., by having a nice meal out together as a family.

I guess in the strictest sense we all cause others to work Sundays or at least benefit by the work others do on Sundays. We have police and fire protection. I'm sure glad hospitals are open seven days. Most of us have electricity (I'm guessing this from the fact we're online). Anyone like sports? NFL football, NBA basketball, major league baseball, NHL hockey and lots of college games now are on Sundays. Even kids' sports programs are on Sundays many times. How about the guy who gets up and fires up the boilers so the church will be warm for services? Anyone read the Sunday newspaper? These are the just some of the things we can see.

The things we don't see and may never know about are some of the products we do buy. We're they produced on Sunday by someone working that day? Many manufacturing facilities now run 24/7 because it's too expensive to shut down and restart production. Were the tires on your car or truck made on a Sunday?

I'm not trying to start any kind of debate here, either. I just thought I'd point out some things that most of us don't think about. I hope everyone enjoys their Sunday however they choose to spend it

-- Gary in Indiana (gk6854@aol.com), January 20, 2002.

Hi: I'm new to this forum--just found out how to get to the other forums on LUSENET. In response to working or purchasing on Sunday--I had struggled with that issue until I realized that as a Christian I am not under the OT law. That law was fulfilled in Christ and was given specifically for the nation of Israel. We are not under obligation to "keep the Sabbath". I do believe it is our responsibility to "not forsake the assembly" as we do need the encouragement of our brothers and sisters in Christ and we need to go and learn more of our Lord. Thanks for the discussion.

-- Dena (ddew1962@earthlink.net), January 20, 2002.

how do you get the sunday paper ??

-- Stan (sopal@net-port.com), January 20, 2002.

True enough Gary and Stan! Many services are often necessary, and where do you draw the line between essential and non-essential?? To some grocery shopping on Sunday may be truly essential, while others only consider things like medical emergencies essential. I hope that everyone can have at least 1 day a week to spend with their families, relax and enjoy the fruits of their labors!

That said, I do feel sorry for people who have to work on Thanksgiving, and other holidays. It seems like this world of ours today never closes for anything. Truly a 24/7 mentality. But I do believe people need some time off...

That is one reason we decided long ago to run our life in such a way that it wouldn't be necessary to have a lot of hustle and bustle. A more calm. cool and collected atmosphere, with plenty of time for family and fun.

-- Melissa (me@home.net), January 20, 2002.

Melissa, here in Iowa we have a good sized grocery chain called Fareway that is never open on Sunday's. I've also heard that a good sized trucking firm in the area, Umthun's, never has drivers etc. working on Sunday. So, there are a few places, beside Aldi's, around here that closed. It's sure not the norm though.

-- Anna in Iowa (countryanna54@hotmail.com), January 20, 2002.

Bravo Dena! Hebrews 5:14

-- Kevin (kevinmail@earthlink.net), January 20, 2002.

I am plenty old enough to recall when the stores in Boston were closed up tight as drums on Sundays..only emergency workers worked, as well as staff at the hotels, airports, etc. Then they had a referendum and it was seen that the majority of folks wanted to shop on Sundays.....now one cannot tell one day of the week from the next, and some places are even open 24 hours a day. Aside from scriptural references, I think it to be a shame that greed comes before family in alot of cases..what stores really need to be open on Sunday? From a personal spiritual sense, it has always been my belief that it does not take much to put God ahead of my personal preferences..it is not that great a sacrifice to keep one day in His honor..to spend a day being totally thankful for all the blessings He has given to me. I do not judge others for what they do or do not do on Sunday...but for me, my obligation is first to God and second to all else. There are some folks who feel very strongly that I am in error by watching the football games on Sunday, or tending my garden. The Amish will not even move a piece of furniture on Sunday..to each his own of spending the day; we will all be accountable for our decisions eventually, so I try to keep that in mind when I plan how I spend my Sundays..did God come first or last for me today?

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 20, 2002.

I don't spend as much time at home on Sunday as I used to and hope to in the future, but I was raised by parents who didn't allow certain things on Sunday - my mother didn't sew on Sunday, my father rested when he could (he was a farmer - you work when you have to and can then, right!).

Lance being a firefighter, he works frequently on Sundays, and it seems that he works more Christmases, birthdays, etc. than he has off, but to me that is partly the Lord's work, since he is taking care of people in need.

Welcome Clove, enjoy!

-- Christine in OK (cljford@mmcable.com), January 20, 2002.

I strive to not use services on Sunday. I can barely remember the days when places just were not open on Sunday.

-- Rick (Rick_122@hotmail.com), January 20, 2002.

Gary,

I too agree that each person should enjoy their Sabbath as best they choose. I personally opt not to transact business on Sundays, nor do I take advantage of situations that I knowingly cause others to labor. I quit taking the Sunday paper long ago because of that fact. On the other hand, right or wrong, I choose not to be ultra legalistic in my approach to honoring the Sabbath. I used electricity, gasoline (pumped yesterday), telephone, and internet today, for instance, but did not directly force someone else to work just because I wanted to buy something.

There is that a young married man in my Sunday school class no longer brings his family to church because he accepted a job at McDonalds. This full time job, which originally started as a Monday-Friday work week, has now turned into a mostly weekend job. I am pained and deeply saddened by this, especially since two of our class members showed up today for class drinking a coke from McDonalds! I believe that his walk with Christ is being interupted because of this job.

-- clove (clovis97@Yahoo.com), January 20, 2002.

Hi I am new to this forum. I, (like Lynelle) keep the 7th day Sabbath. I am not writing to be critical, just to voice my opinion. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it (Matt 5:17) A lot of people think the commandments are for the Jews as well as the 7th day Sabbath. But in Gen.2:1-3 the Sabbath was given to all men 1500 years before the exsistence of Jews. Some say the 7th day Sabbath was nailed to the cross with Jesus. It is only the ordinances that were nailed to the cross not the commandments. If it were the commandments that were nailed, things like murder, lying and stealing would be O.K. Now that Jesus died for our sins, there is no longer a need for an animal sacrifice, because Jesus became the sacrificial lamb for us. I also believe that the Lord's day is the 7th day and always has been. This was established at creation when he rested on the 7th day. A Roman Catholic pope named Constantine changed the day of worship to Sunday to accomodate and recruite Pagans. Pagans were in the habit of worshipping their Sun god on Sunday and in order to accomodate them, he changed the day of worship. I believe no man has the right to do this. Some people say that it doesn't make any difference what day you worship and they are CORRECT..We all worship in different ways. I worship everyday in my home,in my fields and any time I please. The Father is always there. What I believe matters is what day you keep. To keep a day, means to set it aside and seperate it from the rest of the week. On my 7th day Sabbath, which is from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday (as established at creation) I rest, spend time in prayer and spend time with family and friends. I attend church but I don't think it necessary with keeping Sabbath. I do all my chores like cooking and cleaning on Friday (preparation day) so I am not burdened with these things. I do only the things that have to be done. Like the incident of the ox in the ditch, means that something or someone will be hurt or die if I don't do a task. I milk on Sabbath morings like every morning because it must be done. I believe the 7th day Sabbath is gift from God given to us at creation. It is not a burden or a list of rules of what you can and can not do. It is a day God gives you so you can give it back to him in spending time with him in your own special way whatever that may be. I am sorry if I was too long winded here. I only want to voice my opinion as others have. May God Bless you all....Joanna

-- Joanna (air590bor@aol.com), January 20, 2002.

Well said Joanna. I would like to add that Dena is right in stating that the Sabbath cannot be kept in a legalistic manner. If this is the motivation, then we have lost the blessing of the Sabbath. I spend time with my husband, family and friends because I love them, and want to--not because I have too. The Sabbath was intended to be a time of rest and re-creation. Lynelle

-- Lynelle (x2ldp@aol.com), January 20, 2002.

Just a reminder to respect all religions. Just as I respect your right to keep the Sabbath on the seventh day, please do not spread untruths about the Catholic church.

-- vicki in NW OH (thga76@aol.com), January 20, 2002.

I really truley respect all religions. It makes no difference to me when or how anyone else worships. The fact that the Roman Catholic church is responsible for the change in the day of worship is acknowleged by the catholic church. It is not debateable since it is recognized by both recorded history and church records. Ask any priest and they will confirm this. They believe the pope has the authority to do this. I quote "We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D.364) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday" (end quote) This is quoted from The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, page 50 third edition. Also the Catholic Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, page 111 said, (quote) "You may read the bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify". There are many more of these documentations in the catholic church's records and they are not secret. I have studied this in depth. This is no rumor. I posted because the author of this thread asked for opinions. It makes no difference to me when anyone worships or what day anyone keeps. If this offends anyone, I apologize for posting but not for what I posted.

-- Joanna (air590bor@aol.com), January 21, 2002.

P.S. For all of you who worship or keep Sunday...If you keep or worship on Sunday because you feel this is right for you, then do so. If you are feeling doubtful about this, I recommend that you do some research and find out what is best for you.

-- Joanna (air590bor@aol.com), January 21, 2002.

So Joanna, which was it the Coucil in 364 or Constantine who was pope from 708-715. We observe the Lord's Day. The day of the Resurrection.

-- vicki in NW OH (thga76@aol.com), January 21, 2002.

Just for some information: The Lords day is the Sabbath. Read Mark 2:28 "Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath." Mark 16:9 states that "Jesus was risen early on the first day of the week..." Sunday was called 'first day." I'm hoping that this thread does not disintegate into a who's theology is correct war. If we will read and remember "But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby we know that we are in Him. He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked." 1John 2:5&6. The Father always gives good advice! Lynelle

-- Lynelle (x2ldp@aol.com), January 21, 2002.

In Indiana the car dealerships can't be open on Sundays, and no package liquor sales. Restaurants may serve alcoholic beverages after noon. We have a craft store chain called Hobby Lobby that is closed on Sundays.

-- Sherri C (CeltiaSkye@aol.com), January 21, 2002.

Hi Sherri! The same is true in Ky-no alchol sales I'm not sure about car dealerships-I've never set foot on one of those but I believe its true also. Also we have a Hobby Lobby-LOVE that store!!! They posted the nicest sign about why they are closed on Sundays_I really have a lot of respect for that. I wondered if anyone else shopped at Hobby Lobby.

-- Kelly (KY) (homearts2002@yahoo.com), January 21, 2002.

Aldi's and Chik-fila(sp) are closed on Sundays. They are owned by Christians, from what I've been told.

-- Cindy (SE. IN) (atilrthehony@hotmail.com), January 21, 2002.

Vicki, I am so sorry for not clarifying. I am talking of Pope Constantine I, Constantine I, was born Flavius Valerius Constantinus at Nis on February 27, 280, in what is now Serbia.In his early life he was a solar henotheist. He believed that the Roman sun god, Sol, was the visible manifestation of an invisible "Highest God" who was the principle behind the universe. He served as Pope from 306-337. You are referring to Constantine V, who was Pope from 708-715. My apologies for my inacurracy on my previous post.

-- Joanna (air590bor@aol.com), January 21, 2002.

My dad usually made it a point not to make purchases on Sunday, so he wouldn't be responsible for people having to work and miss church. Not because he thought it was necessarily wrong to work then. He himself during one period sometimes worked Sundays in the hospital emergency room. But when he farmed, he never missed a meeting of the church because of it, though a lot of the other farmers didn't blink at missing for a few hours extra work.

Sunday is my busiest day. ;-) Here's why.

-- Randal at home in Brazil (randal@onebox.com), January 21, 2002.

To answer the original question: We try not to shop Sundays, but are not always able to hold to that. We do not eat out on Sundays, though we know some Christians who do, with no problems with their consciences. Sunday, to us, is a day of rest. I do not cook a big meal; instead we have soup and sandwiches usually.

I think a Christian should ask two questions before doing anything (not just Sabbath keeping). First, Can I do this to the glory of God (will it honour Him)? And second, If I do (don't) do this, will I offend another Christian, who may or may not be weaker in the faith? For instance, I personally sometimes do handwork on Sunday afternoons. However, my mother thinks that is wrong, so when she is around, I don't do it. This is not to say that my mother is weaker in the faith; perhaps I am the weaker one. The point is, she is offended by it, so out of love for her, I will not do it in her presence.

-- Cathy N. (keeper8@attcanada.ca), January 21, 2002.

I should add that whatever one does on the Sabbath, or the Lord's Day (whichever term you prefer), it should be done in sincerity, not with hypocrisy. I know someone who will not buy the Sunday paper, but they have no problem using the coupons from that paper which someone else saves for them. Others get the Sunday paper (if there are any left) on Monday morning. To me, this is not consistent. If you don't believe there should be a Sunday paper, then you shouldn't use any of it, any time. But if you carry that thinking to its logical extreme, then Gary is right--you should ask what day your car, tires, bread, butter, or whatever, was made and only buy the stuff not made on Sundays.

As to the person whose husband works every other Sunday or so--I have not heard personally of an employer who was not willing to give and take on this. Tom has made deals with many of his bosses: Sundays free in exchange for Saturday work or more turns on call. Another friend I know who worked in a hospital said they had a sign-up sheet of people who were willing to trade with anyone who wanted Sunday (or any other day) off for whatever reason. If the boss is willing, maybe such sign-up sheets could be posted in various places of employment.

-- Cathy N. (keeper8@attcanada.ca), January 21, 2002.

Cathy N., probably some employers would have a sign-up sheet, but many wouldn't for discrimination reasons (what if non believers of any religion complained about always working Sundays, for that matter). Most employers pay Sunday differential pay on top of your regular pay, which is a little bit of compensation.

As far as working or buying on Sunday, my own feeling is that it is not a big deal--if you take your kids to a park, for example, you still have someone working to collect the fee....

I think there a lot worse sins in the world than buying or working on the Sabbath (whatever day you celebrate it).

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 21, 2002.

Joanna, Now I understand the confusion. The Constantine that you are talking about was an emperor, not a pope.

-- vicki in NW OH (thga76@aol.com), January 21, 2002.

I don't do business on Sabbath, the seventh day. I respect the fact that others have a Sabbath and strive to set aside a day to worship, even if it's on Sunday or Friday. At least they are keeping it and taking a break from the week long commercialism to give some time back to God.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 21, 2002.

I agree with the sincerity issue mentioned above. Even though I keep the 7th day Sabbath I respect those who choose not to for whatever reason they have. It is all about what's in your heart. That is all that matters. I know a woman who keeps Sabbath faithfully, but her heart is full of hatred, anger and bitterness. What a shame. I can't help but wonder how she justifies this. I try not to do things that will distract me from the day. I try not to buy things on this day, but if my child were sick, I would certainly go out for medicine. We have an emergency room doctor that comes to our church. I know he tries not to work on Sabbath, but if they are short handed, he will. Sabbath or rest regardless of what you do is about what is in the heart not a list of do's and don'ts. Remember the Sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath. It is not supposed to be a burden.

-- Joanna (MinMin45@aol.com), January 21, 2002.

One of our close friends was fired because he wouldn't work on Sunday- he has 4 kids. Took him a long time to find work where he wouldn't be asked to work on a Sunday.

-- Cindy (SE. IN) (atilrthehony@hotmail.com), January 21, 2002.

GT, the sign-up sheet was purely voluntary. Nobody HAD to have their name on it, and if they got tired of working the extra days, they could take their names off. Most of the people on the list were single, with no family, or college students who wanted/needed the extra cash. As I understood it, it was started by a group of workers who, treating each other as family, began to volunteer to stand in for friends in case of emergency, or whatever. People who wanted Sundays off were not the only ones to use it. Other reasons for its use was if a single mom had a sick child and couldn't come in to work, or if there was a death in the family, etc.

-- Cathy N. (keeper8@attcanada.ca), January 22, 2002.

Cathy N., that sounds very nice. I guess it would depend on the size of the workplace and how family friendly they were--I just don't see it in say, a large union shop, for example, or a government workplace. Would be nice to have though!

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 22, 2002.

As far as WHICH day to keep, the scripture does not say to keep a certain day of the week (If it's there, then it was added.) What it says is that you work six days THEN rest on the seventh day which is a sabbath for you.

The argument as to which day just serves to divide Christians. Too bad. God did make it clear that we do need that cycle of rest. When we rest together as a nation, God will bless us. We're not being blessed for that and many other reasons.

Instead of saying God Bless America, shouldn't we be saying Repent or Perish??

Wasn't going to respond to this posting, but when I saw how many people answered, just had to see what it was all about. Glad to see that obedience to God IS important to so many.

I used to be a "Saturday" person until someone pointed out what the scriptures really said.

-- HV (veggie@ourplace.com), January 22, 2002.

My KJV states in the fourth commandment in Ex.20:10, "But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God... And again in Ex.31:13 God says "Verily MY sabbaths ye shall keep:..., and in verse 15 God says the Sabbath is "holy to the Lord." The only place that I have seen the phrase "It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest", I found in Lev.23:32, in regard to the day of atonement. Read it in context with verse 31. Hope that this info helps some. Lynelle

-- Lynelle (x2ldp@aol.com), January 23, 2002.

The original weekly sabbath command is all about working, then resting. No question that this is holy unto the Lord. In fact, strictly speaking, there are many sabbaths (holy days) throughout the year such as Atonement. I don't see many keeping those. In the future with Godly rule, we may just do that (instead of keeping a lot of holidays full of Paganism like Xmas & Easter & Halloween)!

-- HV (veggie@ourplace.com), January 23, 2002.

i was once a restaurant manager and it was manditory to work on sunday. i would not as a rule hire someone who could not work on sunday. then this nice lady applied and said she would work fri and sat for me. she did not believe in working on sunday. well, i hired her and she worked fri and sat aand on sunday she came back for lunch. she did not work on sunday, but she ate out on sunday , making me work. i do not want to work on sunday, and i don't want to make anyone else, so i don't go anywhere to make them. I do watch football, but i figure what the heck they make lots of money. lol

-- randy wybrant (rwybrant@coin.org), January 25, 2002.