just sent in my M3 and M4p to add" sponge" to prevent "light leaks" causing black lines in my prints.

If light has ever leaked, shouldn't the lines be white? and not black?

Has anyone added "sponges" at the back plates before?

-- Travis koh (polar@cyberdude.com), January 18, 2002

Answers

Since you've already sent the 2 cameras in I'm not sure what help you can get here. We're you actually getting black lines on your prints? Who/what prompted you to send them in? Where did you send them? I have never, ever encountered a "sponge" (foam) anywhere in an M Leica. It isn't part of the design, and not something any of the trained Leica techs I know would do or advocate.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), January 18, 2002.

Travis, didn't you go over this problem a week or so ago? It was evident at the time that your processor was screwing up your negs, has he suggested that you send in your cameras? I hope if this turns out not to solve the problem, as it almost certainly will, that your lab is going to foot the repair bill. Never ever ever ever listen to anything a lab tells you. Just change labs. And make sure you get the free replacement films off them.

What you had was tramlines, from your description and that's got nothing to do with light leaks.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), January 18, 2002.

Rob, thx.

Its funny that the tramlines occurred on m3+50cron and m4p+35cronasph.

How could 2 setups end up with the same tramlines?

My cameras are still under warranties and the vendor said by adding a sponge inside the backplate might solve the problem. He thinks its light leak.

But I have to agree with u that if light has leaked, there should not be tramlines.

I will definitely send to another lab just to be very sure.

In the meantime, I was hoping anyone could tell me anything about "sponges", cos I have heard 2 leica people talking abt it and telling me that they too had similar experience.

;) bad stroke of luck..

-- Travis koh (polar@cyberdude.com), January 18, 2002.

How could two setups end up with the same tramlines? Proof that it's the lab's fault! _They_ are the ones putting them there!

I recently shot a large quantity of film in Pakistan. Tramlines tramlines everywhere. The damn lab ruined some terrific pictures and you can't always fix the problem with photoshop and keep it looking natural. And they weren't for the family album.

Go back to the lab and shout at them. It won't fix the tramlines but at least you'll feel better about being ripped off and lied to.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), January 18, 2002.

Rob, were your tramlines straight? and in multiples?

sigh...I had quite a few good shots ruined too. ;(

-- Travis koh (polar@cyberdude.com), January 18, 2002.

Sponges? Where would these sponges go to prevent light leaks?

-- Richard (rvle@yahoo.com), January 18, 2002.

those sponges could easily go on that developing machine, I´m having the same problem with lab I´m using, I won´t waste time complaining, change lab, or do it myself.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), January 18, 2002.

Black lines on prints are caused by _scratches on the film_. Nothing else. So, somewhere along the way your film's getting scratched. This has absolutely nothing to do with light leaks.

If you're bulk-loading film, stop. That's a scratch factory, caused either by a bulk-loader that pulls film through a felt-slit light trap, by grit in the felt lips of re-used cassettes or both.

Assuming you're not bulk-loading, carefully check and clean the the camera film chamber, but in a Leica there's really nothing touching the emulsion side of the film that could scratch it. Scratches caused by grit on the pressure plate would print as white lines, not black.

That leaves only scratches during processing. That you're getting the marks on film from two cameras strongly supports that conclusion, assuming you're using only manufacturer-loaded film.

Cameras that have hinged backs (most 35mm) usually have a strip of foam on the hinge end and perhaps another strip of foam on the other end plus foam or twine around the entire back; it's _very_ common to get light leaks in older cameras in which the foam has rotted or been damaged. That's most likely what the lab's telling you, but the fact is that Leicas aren't built that way and if your cameras did indeed have light leaks they'd show as _white_ on prints, not black.

Leicas _do_ have a couple of internal covers held in place by scews through which light could leak, but these are _not_ foam, it's very rare for one of those to leak, and again a leak would cause white marks.

-- John Hicks (jhicks31@bellsouth.net), January 18, 2002.

Hey guys, how about a definition here? I have heard about tram cars, tramroads, and tramways. What is a tramline? You are apparently not speaking about a "British streetcar line". Right? LB

-- Luther Berry (lberrytx@aol.com), January 18, 2002.

I think the light sealing on the M has been solved for enough years (going on 50) without stuffing sponges into them. They don't need to be wrapped in duct tape, either. I think I would suggest that the sponges be stuffed in the processor, instead. Maybe even into his machine.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), January 18, 2002.

Luther, tramlines are parallel scratches running horizontally across the film. They come out as black or white lines in printing or scanning.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), January 19, 2002.

Thanks, Rob for the definition. Interesting that I had not come across this word usage before. Suspect that I am not the only one who benefitted from it. Have a good day! LB

-- Luther Berry (lberrytx@aol.com), January 19, 2002.

Hi, I have a M2 that has two vertical felt linings in the housing that are not present in other cameras. When and where they had been mounted I don't know, but obviously the only purpose could be to prevent light from leaking. The camera had a CLA, but I can't remember if the felt was already mounted before that.

Johannes

-- Johannes Fleischhauer (j.fleischhauer@vsao.ch), January 22, 2002.