Bad Language

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Unofficial Newcastle United Football Club BBS : One Thread

Does anyone have any advice on these teach yourself language courses? There are loads of them about in WH Smiths and the like - all with CDs attached which claim to make you fluent in 30 minutes. I'm going to Italy in the summer - can't speak a word of Italian and would like to make the effort even though everyone will no doubt put me to shame out there and speak English anyway. Just the basics - two beers please, how much is that, you've got to be joking - that sort of thing.

My Dad, bless him, used to say that you could go anywhere in the world and speak Geordie and they would all understand you. This theory was shot out of the water the first time he came to Stoke, however!

-- Anonymous, January 17, 2002

Answers

What is it with these Europeans? We've decimalised our currency, got rid of the imperial measures, now look likely to ditch the pound for the Euro and NOW they expect us to speak their language when we visit their countries. If I were you Jacko I think you should just speak very loudly and slowly in English and point at what you want. :-)

Actually, a lot of words are the same, pizza, pasta, cornetto, Manchester United etc, so you shouldn't have too much trouble. I can't speak for any of the courses available but I daresay you could find comments from users of such courses on the net, possibly on the Amazon site for example?

Don't mention the war...

-- Anonymous, January 17, 2002

Tres bien, Monsieur jonno :-)

-- Anonymous, January 17, 2002

Any course offering fluency in 30 minutes, or 30 days for that matter, is lying. It can take years even if you're immersed in another language 24/7. Best self-study language course I know of is the Rosetta Stone, they have a free online demo on their site. However it starts with fundamentals and isn't aimed at tourists needing a few useful phrases. It might still be useful as unless you have some basic idea how the pronunciation works, you might find it difficult being understood even if you know what to say. I’m told Italian isn’t too difficult to learn, unlike English where the verbs tend to be irregular, the grammar bizarre and the match between spelling and pronunciation a nightmare.

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002

I agree with Jonno. Every other country in the world speaks English (to some level or another) just have a look at this web site http://www.engrish.com (copyright Bud!)

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002

but I wouldn't listen to me for advice having lived in Japan for 6 years and still only speak the essentials.

How to order a beer and where's the toilet.

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002



Jacko

A few points:

Don't assume that everyone spikka da Eengleesh here. The moment you move from the main tourist cities that is unlikely to be the case.

Best bet would be to join a night class (conversational Italian) - although you'd be joining mid-year at this point.

Where will you visit. Will you drive..........?

Survival tip - learn infinitives & then put the word "posso" in front of the infinitive. Ees seemple.

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002


Oh! ....... and do mention the war by all means. They're rather proud of the fact that they ended the war on the winning side - eventually.

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002

I can speak Italian but attended a language course for 9 months to learn it. I bought a couple of tapes to assist me and I don't think they are bad as back up. The fact it gets you listening to the language and practicing is the main thing. If you can get one cheap enough then it is well worth, even if you only learn to ask for stuff in shops, order food etc.

Italian isn't a difficult language and it's a lovely language also.

Make the effort - the locals appreciate it. Also wear your Toon top - I got into loads of conversations about 'calcio' with Italians, they are as mad as us about it.

BTW - which part of Italy you going to?

Ciao!

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002


Jacko - I'd agree about night class, though you wouldn't necessarily be starting mid-year. I'm learning Italian at the moment and it's just the second week of term - i think a lot of colleges start courses two or three times a year, so even though this is my third term, I'm sure a lot of people are just starting now.
To get you started:
'Mi dispiace, non parlo italiano. Parla inglese?' might help!

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002

Due birra per favore - Two beers please

Quanto costa? - How much is it?

Per andare.... - How do I get to...

Questo e il nostro anno - :@)

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002


Dan - questo anno e nostro anno? Bene - avanti i ragazzi!!!!!!!!!

(we're just showing off now - I've a long way to go until I'm as good as good as Dougal and her grammatically correct French translations.)

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002


Other useful phrases:

mal ala testa
miei genitori sono grande
meaning of course head ache, and I've got big parents.

I spent many a pleasant hour in the afternoon in Milan where I worked for about six months, being taught some basic Italian by this gorgeous woman - one on one like. A real incentive - so Jacko, find yourself a local Italian romeo and get started.

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002


Senor Miller is right, of course. One-on-one is the best way. And no other world citizens will be keener to go one-on-one (fnarr fnarr) than the Italians. Simply say "jig-a-jig?" with a rising inflection and stand (well) back.

Should you wish to reject unwanted advances, the polite and well-used device is to say "va fa culo" with a smile.

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002


Best tip really is avoid men in white spats carrying violin cases.

I tried out a French CD ROM that you use with a microphone, so that you are tested for fluency against the computer's standards. It just about got us by on holiday (including a car accident in Tours).

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002


Jacko,

I can truly recommend Michel Thomas's courses. I used the German one and it was amazing. You write nothing down - he doesn't want you to learn the language - he wants you to know the language. The courses are a bit pricey at 54 pounds but you'll find it's worth it (you get 8 audio cds for your money).

Here's some stuff I copied from Amazon.co.uk:

Synopsis Michel Thomas's approach to language learning aims to provide in a few hours a functional working knowledge of a language without books, note-taking or conscious memorizing. This CD provides an eight-hour course in Italian.

Reviewer: A reader from Italy I am a language teacher, teaching English in Italy. I found Thomas' course to be by far the finest self-study teaching aid I've yet found. It's important to explode a few myths: there's nothing 'magical' about Mr Thomas' method. He follows many universally-recognised language teaching axioms, chief among them that the student must PRODUCE the language (they're not really learning it if they don't produce it). The 'spin' Mr Thomas puts on his lessons is truly his own, however; I've never come across anything quite like it before. Also, Mr Thomas claims that you will not forget what you learn on his course - well, actually, you might; you can forget anything if you try hard enough! But the rate of recall after using this course is significantly - perhaps exponentially - higher than for traditional book-and-tape courses. Mr Thomas takes some amazing short cuts with the Italian language in his course; but all of them are justified, as the intelligent student will see. Anything he leaves out is easily slotted in later, into the structures he has already taught you. My advice is to listen to this course first, and then buy an 'ordinary' book and tape course, or go to conventional Italian lessons. Mr Thomas' course is not enough on its own, but it lays a foundation of a strength that, speaking as a language teacher, I find unbelieveable. I sincerely hope he brings out an Advanced Italian volume.

Reviewer: (roger.wong@virgin.net) from Glasgow, Scotland I found this CD based course to be an absorbing introduction to the language covering both the important grammatical structure in an entertaining and enjoyable way as well as giving an historical perspective to the development of Italian words and vocabulary. This course made me want to devote time to listening to the recordings as well as speak the language. In essence, by following this course and using a good language dictionary, it allowed me to easily express myself in Italian. I only wish that this course was longer than the 8 CDs. Are you listening Michel Thomas?

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002



Thanks very much for all your help folks.

I'm actually going to Rome and Florence - five nights in each - so we're talking tourist areas here. I know it is likely that I will encounter many English speakers but I always feel embarrased at my ineptitude with language. I can get by in French (as log as they reply slowly!) but not much else. The first time I ever went to Germany I went into a cafe and ordered two coffees in perfect phrasebook German and the waitress responded "certainly Madam"! I lost confidence after that!

I bet loads of you have been to Bruges and done a canal trip where the boatman will do a commentary and converse with you in virtually any language you want. Everyone else seems to take the trouble except us!!

I simply haven't got the time for an evening class - I end up with so many after hours meetings these days that I can never guarantee to be free the same night each week but I'll definitely look into the Michael Thomas option. Thanks for that Pilgrim. Will let you know how I get on! Arrivederci!

-- Anonymous, January 18, 2002


I lived in Tuscany for 6 months and I used the Italianissimo course (book and tape) by (I think) the BBC. I remember that being pretty good because I could understand a fair bit by the time I got there.

It may well come with videos or DVDs or whatever by now.

I can now remember very, very little Italian although I can understand it reasonably well. When I learned Spanish (v. similar) it seemed to force the Iti out of my brain. Obviously space is at a premium in there :)

-- Anonymous, January 19, 2002


We're using Insieme, which has a tape with it. It's good, though it's been a bugger to get hold of.

-- Anonymous, January 19, 2002

Moderation questions? read the FAQ