I'm looking to buy my 1st 35mm rangefinder. Can someone who has used the IIIF and Bessa T comment. A factor is my thoughts that current rent lenses, such as the G2 Zeiss 35mm, are so sharp as to render a plated look. On the other hand I would not be satisfied with older SM lens quality. I love the look of the IIIF but the Bessa T can use 3rd generation M mount lenses. On the other hand if the T and its lenses feel cheap it will take away some of the charm.

-- Richard Jepsen (rjepsen@mmcable.com), January 16, 2002

Answers

You might want to take a look here: http://www.cameraquest.com /VC3f.htm

-- Alexander Grekhov (grekhov@wgukraine.com), January 16, 2002.

Well, the lenses aren't an issue, since they both use essentially the same lenses--old Leica, Canon, etc., Voitglander, or in the case of the T the possibility, but not mandated, of modern Leica lenses. So the T offers the same lens range as the IIIf, and a bit more. And the IIIf is over 50 years old, which should count for something. . . But I'd think that the real choice here would be between the IIIf and the Bessa R, which are very similar cameras.

I suspect you're not totally clear on how the two (or the three) cameras are similar and different---perhaps a bit more reading is required. :-) The whole cameraquest.com site would be a good start.

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.

I've had a Bessa-T Heliar for about a month. The camera feels very nice in my hand, the rangefinder is small, but works great. The advance and shutter aren't as quiet or solid sounding as the Nikon M I used to have, but it's good to have a lever rather than a knob wind. The viewfinder has a superb bright image, but with glasses on I can't see all the frame lines. Despite what Voigtlaender's specs say, there is no self-timer. The camera is easy to operate when wearing gloves. Some Leica M lenses won't fit because they protrude to far inside the camera. The Heliar lens is beautifully constructed. Filters are a weird size (27mm). Focussing or changing the aperture rotates the filter mount, so a polarizer is hard to use. The lens hood is about the same diameter as a Series 6 filter. I tried holding a Series 6 polarizer on the end of the hood and it worked OK. I don't want to say anything about the lens quality yet. I got pneumonia soon after the camera arrived and haven't had much of a chance to use it outside yet. So far I'm very happy with it.

The Bessa has some advantages over the IIIF, It's easy to load and has a through the lens meter. New accesories are available and not too expensive.

-- Leonard Bulger (lsquaredb@aol.com), January 16, 2002.

Leonard: What frame lines? I thought the Bessa T didn't have any frame lines at all and required an accesory viewfinder.

-- Ken Prager (pragerproperties@worldnet.att.net), January 16, 2002.

Richard - the Bessa T has no build in viewfinder, only a rangefinder. So you have to use additional viewfinders for every lens you want to use. I have not used the Bessa T myself, but I use a Bessa R. It's nearly the same camera but with a build in viewfinder. In fit and finish it's behind the Leica M4-P I have, but for the price it's a great value. And you can use all the modern Cosina-Voigtlander lenses beside the LTM oldies. And these lenses are excellent. I have the 4/25, the 1.7/35, the 1.5/50 and the 2.5/75 of this line. On the other side, if you want a more compact package, a lllf is a good idea. Fit and finish is excellent - it's Leica. But film handling is very strange and slow, and the viewfinder is smaller also. As shooter you should prefer a Bessa. If you don't have problems with an additional viewfinder, the T could be a good idea, but I didn't like it. But the retro look is nice...

-- Richard (richard.srienz@swissonline.ch), January 17, 2002.

Ken: I meant the brightline box in the finder. If I put my glasses right aainst the finder I can see the top and bottom of the box, but not the right and left edges unless I move my eye.

-- Leonard Bulger (lsquaredb@aol.com), January 17, 2002.

Yes it is an accessory finder. Supposedly it won't fit on other cameras either. The only other accessory finder I've used was the Leitz 135mm brightline, and the 50mm Voigtlaender is much, much nicer to look through (clearer, brighter, no ghost image in the middle, but this might be an apples to oranges compaison)

-- Leonard Bulger (lsquaredb@aol.com), January 17, 2002.

I love my IIIf, but then I have over 50 years of experience with it. I would not, under any conditions, recommend it to anyone who was just starting out in RF.

-- (bmitch@home.com), January 17, 2002.

Richard,

Since you wrote "Voigtlander Heliar Bessa T," maybe you are looking at the commemorative set that includes the Bessa T body, a 50mm f/3.5 Heliar lens, and a 50mm viewfinder. You should also be aware that the Bessa T is available by itself (though not in the cool commemorative colors), as is a 50mm Voigtlander finder. The lens is not (yet).

As noted above, the Bessa R compares more directly with the IIIf, at least in the sense that it takes the same lenses and doesn't always need an external finder. If you're new to manual rangefinders, any of the Bessa bodies will be easier to pick up and use, since so many of the features are just like most manual SLRs of the past 30 years. Film loading, winding, rewinding, shutter speed selection, film speed selection, self timer, meter, and flash for the Bessa R all behave exactly like a Nikon FM or FM2, for example.

Of course, if you really want an M-mount camera, then you'll need the Bessa T. If you've been using a G2, you might even prefer the Konica Hexar RF, with auto-exposure and motor wind.

When you worry about the T's lenses feeling cheap, I assume you mean the new Voigtlander lenses, since the T can use lenses made over the past 70 years by Leica, Canon, Nikon, Konica, Komura, companies in the former Soviet Union, and others. The Voigtlander lenses actually feel quite nice.

Also, don't be so sure that you won't be "satisfied with older SM lens quality." Designs for lenses between 35mm and 135mm were already quite mature in the 1950s and '60s, the glass was excellent, and the coatings were good, so you might be surprised. Besides, there are many different qualities in lenses. Sometimes you don't want a lens that's "so sharp [you get] a plated look," and you may need to try older lenses to get the look you want.

Anyway, good luck in you decision. And if you wait a few more months, there might be a Voigtlander with both a built-in viewfinder AND an M mount.

-- John Morris (jtmorris@slb.com), January 17, 2002.

My first r.f. camera was a Leica IIIf with a 50/2. Get it. Suffer. Learn photography all over again. You'll be glad you did.

I have a Bessa T with Trigger Winder. I love it, but I think of it as a supplementary camera. It's build quality is very good, but not up to Leica standards.

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), January 18, 2002.

My first r.f. camera was a Leica IIIf with a 50/2. Get it. Suffer. Learn photography all over again. You'll be glad you did.

I have a Bessa T with Trigger Winder. I love it, but I think of it as a supplementary camera. It's build quality is very good, but not up to Leica standards.

The Contax G2 is a totally different breed of camera.

-- Alex Shishin (shishin@pp.iij4-u.or.jp), January 18, 2002.