M6 classic v TTL

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I have a choice: a black demo M6 TTL or an original chrome classic M6 with the Leitz logo in near mint condition. Both are the same price. I do not need an ultra-sophisticated flash system, but is the TTL's metering system better? Does it drain power if it is not turned off each time? Is the TTL noticeably larger? Aesthetically, I like the look of the classic M6 but would it be as reliable, given the fact it's quite a lot older? All comments welcomed.

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), January 15, 2002

Answers

David: many of us will give you many details but here are my fast comments. I have a new black TTL. I never use flash so I don't care what's better or worse here. No, the TTL does not drain off juice if I do not turn to OFF each time. It only drains juice when you press the release button -- on purpose or not. Therefore I only turn it to OFF when I put it in the bag. I haven't measured sizes, but I think the TTL is "only" about 2 mm higher than the classic. That will only be important, or of relevasnce to you if you have pretty small hands. The most important things (for me, which you didn't mention) are the shutter speed dial size and direction of rotation. Also the LED shape and blink. Those are the things which lead people to buy and stick to either the classic or the TTL. Aesthetically, I myself like the look of the TTL more than the look of the clasic. My next M will be a second TTL, this time in chrome (just to have two different finishes).

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), January 15, 2002.

David,

I don't have an M6 classic, just a couple of TTLs, but I'll try to answer your questions from my own knowledge and from what I've read about the classic.

The "ultra-sophisticated flash system" of the TTL is not generally considered to be an important feature. However, I can vouch for the fact that it works really well!

The M6 TTL's metering system is better than that of the classic in two ways, namely, (A) it's more sensitive, so it will work in dimmer light; and (B) the light balance LEDs in the viewfinder include a central red dot, in addition to the left and right arrows of the classic, which glows when the exposure is correct and makes the light balance of the TTL easier to use.

The M6 TTL can drain power if it is not turned off and there is an OFF position on the shutter speed dial to prevent that. Otherwise, power drain occurs if there is any pressure on the shutter release, such as can occur in a camera bag, whether the shutter is cocked or not. FWIW, I have sometimes stowed my cameras in the bag without remebering to turn them off and have never encountered a problem.

The TTL body is about 2.5 mm taller than the classic, to accommodate the TTL flash electronics. Not everyone complains that it is noticeably larger but some do not like it. I couldn't care less but YMMV.

The classic M6 my be just as reliable as the TTL but the real issue is probably whether the electronics could be repaired/replaced should they fail. This is older technology!

Another difference of which you may not be aware is that the shutter speed dial on the M6 TTL is bigger and rotates in the ooposite direction than that on the M6 classic and all other M cameras. On the TTL, it rotates in a direction that corrspondes to the red arrow LEDs, e.g. if the left-hand right-pointing LED is glowing, indicating under-exposure, move the shutter speed dial to the right (for longer exposure). That is also the direction in which you would turn the lens's aperture ring if you wnated to correct the exposure that way. If you're used to other M cameras this might be confusing.

Finally, if I were you I would go for the M6 TTL, if only because that's what I've got and I like it! Also, if it's a demo, you should also get some sort of warranty. Hope that helps.

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), January 15, 2002.


Hello David,

shortly after LEITZ came out with the LEICA M6-chrome production was shifted to Solms and the LEITZ name disappeared from the cameras and lenses. So you wonŽt find many LEITZ M6 in silverchrome around, perhaps 2,000 as a guess. If it would be my decision, I think for historical reasons I would go for the classic camera body. The additional hight of the TTL model does not add to the asthetics of the camera IMO. With a chrome camera all the wonderful chrome lenses from the 50ies and 60ies match perhaps better than with a black body.

Although it is older of course, IŽam quite sure the Wetzlar M 6 is as reliable as one from Solms. The electronics from Solms productions have altered a bit, as you perhaps know. But you can get this changed (into the version with flashing diodes in low light) should you miss this feature, if a CLA is due.

Best wishes

-- K. G. Wolf (k.g.wolf@web.de), January 15, 2002.


David, presumably this is from a dealer? If so they should provide at least a six month warranty - plenty of time to test the "classic".

If TTL flash is not important I would go with the older M6 especially if it is a Wetzler model. These are IMO the finest of the M6's and the most asthetically pleasing. If you do decide to sell in the future they are also likely to appreciate more than any other standard production M6, especially in the less common chrome finish with the Leitz roundel.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), January 15, 2002.


The leaner looks of the Classic are much more seducing.

However, you should also note that:

the M6 classic can also suffer from battery drain if something presses the release button when you store the camera in the bag without turning speed dial to "B" (no "off" position here). Very irritating of course when you notice the power is gone. BTW, do NOT use old M "everready" cases, as they are designed in a way that will almost always induce pressure on the release button !!!!

the smaller speed dial of the Classic is nicer looking, but much more fiddly to operate. The TTL's speed dial is more comfortable and rotates the same direction as R dials, making it easier for those of us who combine R and M. OTOH the Classic's dial is easier for those of us who use M3/2/4 bodies as well.

Reliability: you should be OK with any of the two.

-- Jacques (jacques.balthazar@hotmail.com), January 15, 2002.



I have a Wetzlar M6. I understand there were some problems with some of the first meter circuits produced, but those have certainly all been replaced by now. My 17-year-old M6 has been as reliable as my 42-year- old M2 and my 40-year-old M3--that is to say, no problems at all except for routine wear and a CLA every 10 years. I change the battery once a year, but it's never run out. The TTL's look larger to me, but that's just because I've had these other ones in my hands for so long. One little detail--the older M6 classics have the metal rewind knob instead of the frequently maligned plastic one found on the TTL. I wouldn't worry about parts availability for M6 classics--there are lots of them out there, and they've only been out of production for a few years.

-- Tim Nelson (timothy.nelson@yale.edu), January 15, 2002.

BTW, all this was asked and answered about three days ago... Twice.

-- Jack Flesher (jbflesher@msn.com), January 15, 2002.

"One little detail--the older M6 classics have the metal rewind knob instead of the frequently maligned plastic one found on the TTL."

The TTL has the same rewind knob as the M6 through M4 cameras. Could you explain further what you are referring to?

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), January 15, 2002.


John, the plastic thing some here refer to from time to time could be the plate for the framecounter. Maybe things got mixed up here a bit.

Best wishes

-- K. G. Wolf (k.g.wolf@web.de), January 15, 2002.


It is my understanding that the rewind lever tip (the tiny little round thingy, which is normally hidden when not in use) was metal on the earlier M6's and M4's. It is now made of some kind of really hard plastic and has been for at least twelve years. I have never heard of anyone breaking the plastic one.

Around 1997 the frame counter disc was supposedly changed to a plastic version. Intially this caused some problems which Leica has since rectified.

-- sam smith (Ruy_Lopez@hotmail.com), January 15, 2002.



I may be wrong about the frame counter disc being metal before 97. I have read conflicting reports about this. However the frame counter mechanism was definately changed by utilizing some plastic parts around 1997.

-- sam smith (Ruy_Lopez@hotmail.com), January 15, 2002.

So if the M6 classic does not meter light through the lens (i.e., the white spot on the shutter); where does it meter the light through? Sorry for such a naive question, but I am new to the whole Leica thing. Also, are the below facts accurate: M6 classic = 1. smaller size 2. no red dot in the meter 3. smaller speed dial (rotates classic way)

M6 TTL = 1. a bit larger 2. more accurate metering 3. larger dial, rotates in the direction of the meter arrows.

As far as I can tell, are these the major differences? Thanks all veyr much, Phillip

-- Phillip Silitschanu (speedin_saab@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.


On the older M6 there is a photo cell that is pointed at the white dot. Not sure about the TTL but I vaguely remember it having a slightly different arrangement. This is a pretty crude discription and I'm sure others will be able to give you a better explanation.

I sold my near new TTL to buy an older (new) M6 because I liked the slightly smaller height of the older model. I have very small hands and the pre M6 suits me better, although the smaller shutter speed dial is a pain.

-- sam smith (Ruy_Lopez@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.


Philip,

TTL metering in this case refers only to flash duration management. The flash is cut off according to the instructions of camera cell, when the cell decides that the film has been adequately exposed. The dedicated TTL flash electronically communicates with that cell through dedicated hotshoe contacts.

On the M6 Classic, the TTL cell does measure continuous light and gives very adequate over- and under-exposure indications through red viewfinder leds, but it does not manage flash duration. The M6 Classic does not offer dedicated hotshoe contacts. This means that flash users on the M6 classic either use manual flash procedures or the flash's own cell (aka 'auto flash').

The advantage of TTL flash management is that you are free to set aperture without having to key anything on the flash or having to resort to GN based calculations. You are also free to add filters without thinking of flash correction ratios.

If you do not heavily use flash, there is no functional advantage to the TTL version. It then all boils down to personal preferences on ergonomic and aesthetic nuances.

-- Jacques (jacques.balthazar@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.


David

Like some of the other posters, I have a certain fondness for the earlier M6 cameras with the Leitz roundel, that are engraved "Wetzlar" on the top plate. In practical termsn in addition to the TTL flash metering feature, the only other significant difference between the early M6 and the current M6 TTL (beside the shutter speed dial) is in the lightmeter's sensitivity.

Over the years, Leica has increased the sensitivity of the meter several times, the last time being when they introduced the M6 TTL. The M6 TTL meters down to EV-1 (with the Noctilux), while earlier versions have reduced low light sensitivity dependning upon the exact vintage. So if this is important to you, get the TTL version. I personally own one of the early Leitz Wetzlar M6 cameras, which I believe were made from 1984 to 1986 or so.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), January 16, 2002.



...to 1988.

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), January 16, 2002.

Hi Dave,

Mine is a ttl, bought it 2 years ago. If you want to buy a second ( new) body later, maybe with a different viewfindermagnification, better take the ttl now. I also like the bigger speeddial because you cane rotate it with one finger, and in the direction of the arrows. I like the size and the looks of the classic more, but I bought mine to use it, + the lightmeter is more sensitive + there is a central red dot between the arrows when the exposure is right. If one arrow + the center spot is "burning" there is a slight over or under-exposure ( I believe half a stop ). Mine is a .72 and I would also like to have the .85. Or maybe I just buy the viewfinder-magnification accessory-piece, but I have to check it out first ( anyone knows if it works properly ? ). I think it makes a .90 from a .72 , does it ?

-- Michael (sawasdee_siam@hotmail.com), January 16, 2002.


Thanks everyone for all your input. Sorry if this question repeated another - I missed it and it does seem similar questions keep cropping up, but some very useful info here I didn't know. Not that it makes choosing easier - both M6s look great - but it does look as if the TTL has some useful new features. I wonder if the M7 is really going to arrive?

-- David Killick (dalex@inet.net.nz), January 16, 2002.

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