Interesting article in today's Sunday Sun has Michel Platini backing Nic Anelka playing his way into the Froggy WC squad - because he believes outdated defensive tactics in the PL will help him back onto the goals trail!

He says "Anelka may well rediscover his scoring touch there. I love English football but it seems a crazy game.

The tactics have not changed in 20 years: with 4-4-2 and a flat back four pushing up as far as possible it's easier to score in England so strikers can make a name for themselves.

With flat back fours pushing up as far away from the goal as possible, there is a huge space for fast forwards to exploit. It's no wonder Thierry Henry and Michael Owen score lots of goals. They wouldn't get as much space in Spain or Italy for example because of the marking systems".

My initial reaction was that this was simply another arrogant French tosser mouthing off, but on reflection he may well be right. I had thought the defensive problems in the PL were principally down to the world-class forwards congregating here for the brass, but Platini's may be a more accurate theory.

In our recent game at OT, I felt our speed merchants - minus Robert, of course - were as ineffective as they've been all season. I also noticed how deep ManU defended - these two facts may just have been related, and the result of deliberate tactics by Taggart.

Thoughts?

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Answers

He makes a good point, but it's not that simple.

I'll post more later, but I'm watchin Manure as well as revising for an exam tommorow.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

It may also be down to the fact that we don't have many world class "sweepers" in England so we HAVE to play to our strengths.... i.e. 4-4-2. Liverpool could play Hamman there but they are so solid as a back 4 so why bother?

Maybe Distin has the pace to do the job but's it's a hell of a risk to try out something new (a la Spurs (h) :-(( )

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

The only sure way to defeat pace is to defend on the 18 yard box, therefore there are no holes to put the ball in. However this must create a huge space between defence and midfield, you would either need a team full of hard working midfielders like Man U - Keane, Butt, Veron, Scholes to cover the gaps. I'm not sure we would be able to do it. Or you could simply do play route one and miss out the midfield altogether

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

I'm not sure that his reasons are correct but his assessment is spot on: PL defences are sh*te. We have seen two top notch defences all season (Liverpool and Chelsea and neither of those are infallible). I don't why there has been this decline although another French person on the PSG site was talking about how the English really only appreciate attacking players and don't appreciate the art of defending.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

I've heard many similar views here to Platini's. Most Dutch fans love the English game for its relentless speed, physicality and emphasis on attacking. The more knowledgable also tend to think that tactically it is rather weak. Marking is seldomly used, 4-4-2 dominates apparently largely because its what the players are used to. Dutch players strong enough to cope with the rough and tumble of the Premiership are often surprised how much space they get on the ball. That said the game has come a long way since the kick + rush nonsense of the 80s. Wonder what Buff thinks?

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

As a matter of interest, how does Platini account for how well Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal have done in the CL? How many did Henry score against Juventus? At least one, possibly two if memory serves.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

I did wonder about that dougal - but then I started thinking of all the poor results our teams have had against Spanish opposition recently.

I really think Platini has a valid point - just think of how many goals The Toon have given up this season to a straightforward ball down the middle that has taken out our entire defence, which plays far too flat and is very vulnerable to pace?

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Er, not to mention the number we have also scored Mr C. Two yesterday, Lolo at Highbury and quite a lot more. You can only beat the team put up against you. We have shown that we can't crack a deep defence anywhere near as easily (Liverpool and Chelsea as Dougal mentioned). For that, we need wingers who can reach the byeline with attackers (strikers and MF) running into the box. I'm sure it's on YBR's coaching agenda ;-)

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

...yup, only adds to the point.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

You may have a point, Clarky, although I'm not sure that how badly we've done against Spanish sides hasn't been a function of the English sides' crap defences (didn't Man Utd get beaten 3-2 by Deportivo?) rather than necessarily the other side defending particularly well. Liverpool couldn't do much against Barcelona but they haven't been scoring freely against anyone (and they stuffed Barca at Anfield last season). To tell the truth, I watch Serie A and La Liga (when I can) and while Serie A has some extraordinary defences, I haven't been that amazed at the Spanish defences... Very interesting debate this....

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

PS. Another thought. Don't the French national side normally play 4-4- 2? They don't concede many and that has to be due to the quality of the defenders (Desailly et al). On that basis, I'm tempted to conclude that it's less about systems than about personnel.

On the other hand, we are talking about how effectively Man Utd and Chelsea defended against us but we did score against both (having a goal disallowed, a shot cleared off the line in one and being beaten largely by the keeper in the other). We struggled against Liverpool but I'm inclined to say that that was largely because of their playing 9 men behind the ball....

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

... Liverpool do tend to defend deep to avoid their CB's - who are good in the air but not exactly swift - being exposed by the ball over the top to the PL speed merchants.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Troyes anyone?

I agree about the last ditch defending at OT but v's Leeds we beat them with quick passing AND pacy front men not relying on pace alone. That said it has been our most effective weapon to date.

If English teams do well in Europe does that mean they are not typical of the English game?

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

Interesting debate as already noted by Dougal, IMHO that defensive set up employed by clubs is 90% governed not only by the first choice pick but the remainder of the defensive squad, that is why 4-4-2 appears to be the preferred option to most. Majority of managers are set in their ways and attempting to be flexible can lead to disaster. He may have 4 who are comfortable with a back 3 , 2 good wing backs, injuries and suspensions can easily upset the applecart using this formation although I would not be averse to using this system in CL matches. A packed defence defending deep also gives problems to the attacking team,eg(Liverpool), this I feel is something of their own making, usually following a pattern of the attacking team playing a neat build up to the edge of the area and then looking fot that one killer threaded ball that is 99% cut out. As the game wears on they become more and more frustrated , fail to hit the lines and ping angled balls into the box which are meat and drink for likes of Hypia and Henchoz. Invariably the defending team will break out quickly, score, gain the points , how championships are won. One thing I have noticed more this season than others is the willingness to shoot from outside area into a packed box . I have discussed this aspect with Floridean and we are both in agreement that the numbers of deflected goals scored now are way above anything we have ever witnessed, so instead of looking for the little wall pass, push and run, give and go and dinky little threader the solution may be right in front of us, see the whites of their eyes and let rip.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

not sure Buff. I remember seeing a Cloughie intervew/documentary where he was extolling shooting into packed penalty areas 'cos it can go anywhere, young man'.

It will be interesting to see how we play against Liverpool later in the season. As Robson has said Bellamy is his Owen and he has the same fear factor for defenders, particularly if he keeps getting highlighted on the telly. Liverpool more than ever will play the four plus Hamman just in front against us and hope to let Owen score his customary hat trick against us.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

I wonder if the lighter ball contributes to the number of longer range shots and deflections, buff. It seems much easier to strike the current match balls, and they tend to move all over the place.

The footballs I played with at school where actually hard to get off the ground when they were wet, and used to leave an imprint on your forehead when you headed the lace!

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

Yeah Floridean feels the lighter ball has a lot to do with it,but I now more in favour of giving it welly into a packed area,success rate is way above the five a side stuff

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

Interesting comments from a lot of people. To be fair to Platini, he's not stated 4:4:2 in itself as being outdated, but the flat back 4, pushed up as far as possible. For me the biggest difference between continental football and our own, is the former's emphasis on stopping the opposition scoring as opposed to scoring yourself. Both methodolgies have weak points, especially if teams aren't exposed to the possibilities of differing tactics. A continental team used to a slower, cagier game of cat and mouse can sometimes be blasted away by a attack-minded game played at high pace and total commitment, and because goals and harder to come by, they can't mentally cope with being say 2 goals behind. The English method is I suspect easier to criticise technically than play against.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

This was only a highlights show but watching Football Italia last night, the thing that struck me was the sheer numbers involved in Italian defending and their positional rigidity. Having said that, in the Roma v Verona game, some of the defending wouldn't have looked out of place in the first five minutes of any NUFC game.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

...usually following a pattern of the attacking team playing a neat build up to the edge of the area...

That's more like I remember the Keegan style and is the aspect I see as being a bit different from the way we're trying to play now.

I get the impression that we're trying to break from much deeper, using Bellamy's and Dyer's speed to cover the ground that would take three or four passes involving two or three players, the effect being I think, that whereas the players involved in the build up, in a way, could be out of it as far as finishing goes, when the ball is carried forward at high speed by one player, the finish can be available to two or three extra players.

I think it's a lot harder to defend when the defence are forced to back pedal all the time, which I think is the effect Bellamy and Dyer have.

If we can really get a grip of playing this way, with a 'so long as we score at least one more goal than you' approach, it'll take a lot more coping with, even by a defence like Liverpool's.

This really could be just wishful thinking on my part, and obviously even if there is something in it, the crunch will come on March 2nd and probably more particularly, March 6th.

With regard to the OT game, I think you're right Clarky, but I think if a fit Robert had been available, it would have given manure more problems.

I also think that Bobby gave them too much respect and tried to come up with a more defensive approach, which I think took the edge of our attacking options, along the lines of maybe Dyer having been told to be more defensive minded. I don't think that was the case against Leeds.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

'Continental Football' covers too many diverse styles to be a meaningful term imho. Italian football is extremely defensive, but the Spanish competition far less so, and Roma won the Serie A last season playing some entertaining stuff.

Meanwhile over here there is a furious post-World Cup Qualifying debate going on amongst Dutch tacticians over whether their traditional attack-orientated 4-3-3 system, with wingers, is still relevent. Ajax coach Có Adriaanse was recently sacked for, amongst other things, playing too defensively. The quality may be lower but few league games in the Eredivisie are dour defensive encounters, likewise in the Belgian game from the limited amount of football I've seen.

The German game, it is true, doesn't enjoy a great reputation for entertainment but it has still produced two Champions League winning clubs in recent years, thats more than the EPL has.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

I disagree with the point about Dutch players getting more time on the ball here.

If anything, the Italian's give you hours on the ball, let you pick a pass and take your time. The English are generaly taught from an early age to close down and make it difficult for the opposition to do anything with the ball.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

the attacking style of english football is due to teams that try to pressurize the opposition by committing more players to attack. (sort of a first world war mentality). this leaves the attacking team vulnerable to a quick break, an art that manu have perfected. (look at the first 2 goals against us last week) english tactic haven't changed much but the quality of skill since the kick & rush days (c1975) has.

euro teams tend to get more players behind the ball and don't throw themseleves into attack if the opposition defence is well organised. that's why you sometimes see the ball being passed around in the center circle for minutes at a time while they're waiting for the other team to lose it's defensive shape.

platini's point about anelka is right on, with his pace he will get more chances in the PL. his point about tactics is questionable since it's really down to execution of said tactics.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

Thought provoking stuff this. For my money the main diffeence between top European continental sides and top PL sides in the past few years is that ours can play very well to their strengths ONLY if allowed to. The vast majority of domestic players and teams seem to lack the tactical nous to change tack during a game if things aren't going their way. The only notable exception being ManU, several times during league matches but only sometimes in Champions League

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002