I put it to you that the only reason Robert starts ahead of Bernard is because he was the summer signing and Bernard was a free. If Bernard had been the big signing he would be the one starting.

Bernard has given a lot more solid and reliable performances than Robert. When Bernard recieves the ball, you expect him to give it to a black and white. When you see Robert recieve the ball, I feel as if it's 50/50 to wether we will keep possesion.

Both are very quick. Both can score goals.

Bernard works alot harder in defence, better at tackling, interceptions, but then does just as much upfront as Robert does.

Roberts attitude is terrible. Always sulking about something, loosing the ball and not making any attempt to win it back, and that time in the WC when Shearer scored, went to Robert and Robert looked at the floor and blanked him.

Bernard however desperately wants to play. This comes across in his determenation on the pitch and his comments in interviews about wanting 1st team football.

And finally, Bernard gets a lot wider.

I have just given one side of the argument here because I know most of you will say Robert is better. I am undecided on Robert and would like to hear your opinions on Robert. I know a lot of the crowd are sick of him already. Everyone around me was shouting, "French Puff," ect when he was giving the ball away. They have done for the past few games. So firstly Robert or Bernard? Secondly why?

-- Anonymous, January 12, 2002

Answers

in short, hear hear

-- Anonymous, January 12, 2002

Robert has a fear factor that Bernard does not (yet) have. Robert has the experience of playing at a higher level. Robert even when he gets a forearm smash in the gob still goes back for more. Robert has more options.

Bernard struggled against Palace last week when he came up against an old pro in Hopkins who stuck to him like a limpet.

At the moment it is Robert for me, but that doesn't mean that Bernard will not be betetr inthe long run.

I would hope, and I expect to, that if we are winning game sover the next few weeks that Bernard and Lua2 will be coming on for Robert/Dyer/Solano as part of the learning experience. Similarly, but in far less expectation, Shola for Shearer.

Unless Chopra fancies a run out of course :0)

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Sorry, Jim: Bernard isn't in the same class as Robert. As it happens, Lolo's best games have been away from home (and the twats who get on his back during games) but we haven't had a player who could change matches in 20 minutes like he did at Highbury for years. I keep saying this, but his second half at Boro was as good an individual Toon performance as I've seen for years and, if we remember that he has hardly been fit since he joined us and has still played (shit attitude, not), gets loads of attention from defenders and keep the faith, we will have the sort of player that the PSG fans weep about losing. Bernard will get better but he isn't Laurent Robert. In this month's Mag, an Arsenal fan talks about how good he thinks Robert is and also points out that for most of last season, they were furious with Wenger for buying that famous dud, Pires (who Robert skinned at Highbury as I recall). I'm just glad he can't speak English so a lot of the abuse will be passing him by.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

PS. Jim, did you watch The Premiership last night and see him cuddling Bellamy when he scored?

The people shouting French puff should go and watch the Makems, that's what they deserve, the undiscriminating twats.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Everyone around you need to be made to watch last season again to remind themselves that just having anyone down that side makes a world of difference. Perhaps you ought to watch the Old Trafford game again where Bernard kept getting caught in posession and couldn't find a teammate with a 3 yard pass. He's a youngster, still learning the ropes and better suited to playing lesser opposition. To unpick a quality side you need someone like Robert who can put the right ball through on target. When he and Bellamy combined in the second half it was a perfect combination of skill and pace from both players: Bernard could have received a ball, taken on his man and got a great cross in but you'd have to ask who would be supposed to get on the end of it. That close pass-and-move stuff is the difference between great teams and good ones (just ask Leeds) and we are privileged to have 4 of the best exponents of the art in the league.

I don't think the people around you know that there has been a quiet revolution at SJP. They are still looking for the ghost of Sir Les hanging in the air in front of the goals and still want everyone to get to the byeline and whip balls in for him. It's not like that anymore. It's narrow, it's tight, it's fast and it's devastatingly effective. No more looking for corners, they all try to take it into the box at speed: we want all our goals from open play where we are strongest. All we need now is one ball played into the right area and we're through. These players aren't battering rams, they are making the ball beat the markers and moving into space for the return: when the defenders manage to intercept then it looks like we've just given it away but that's because the ball is constantly being played into space ahead of our players. Compare that with static players passing to other static players and it's easy to see what they are doing and simple to defend against as you just go to the man.

Bernard is a great runner, packs a wicked shot and gets his crosses in but I haven't seen anything like the technical ability Robert brings to the side. If we keep it with Bellamy and Robert down the left and Dyer and Solano down the right and any combination you like through the centre, we are quite simply impossible to deal with.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Robert vs Bernard

Robert every time for me. His vision, pace and technical ability is right up there with the best.

More importantly, his reputation as a class player is worth an extra man to us at times, as it really spreads the defence open when the opposition mark him up. I'm sick to death of the high pitched old man who sits behind me, he really hates Robert, calling him a f**king French faggot amongst other things. He also calls for us to "boot it up the pitch" whenever we get the ball, which is simply unbeleivable given the beautiful patient football we've been playing of late.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

We saw 'the good the bad and the ugly' from Robert yesterday. He is undoubdetly temperamental; however, it seems to me that he is potentially world class, that the good can be extremely good, and that we need to be patient with him while BR and the team figure out how to really get the best from him.

In this regard, I actually agree that we don't want him trying to defend which, in any event, he is hopeless at, but which is what happened far too often yesterday. We need him running at the opposition more often, and much further up the field.

It seemed to me yesterday that BR had told him at HT to go looking for the ball if necessary. However, the very first time he did that and drifted into the middle, no one switched positions with him, the ball went down our left wing, and all the 'genuises' in the crowd were baying at Robert for leaving the wing.

Accepting his gallic temperament and the associated propensity to shrug his shoulders and stand like a totem-pole with a lip on occasionally - I think most of the problems are still problems with his full and effective integration into the team pattern.

It would be terribly sad if the mindless SJP boo-boys caused us to lose forever a unique talent.

As for Bernard, he is a good find and a good squad player. IMO he is not in the same class as Robert going forward, but more physical, rather more consistent, and right now a better team player - although I thought he looked utterly lost when starting recently against Palace. Starting is an entirely different proposition to coming on as a sub and 'giving it a go' for 10 minutes.

I think the real question with Bernard is is he good enough defensively to compete for the LB position, where we are relatively weak, because I can't really see him playing long-term in the PL as a left winger.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Missed you post Softie, but I totally agree RE the crosses / fast paced pass and move game.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Getting rid of Robert for not tackling enough would be like getting rid of Hughes, O'Brien, Dabizas and Distin for being the only outfield players not to have an attempt on goal yesterday (I bet there wasn't another team in the league who managed that yesterday).

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Good points.

I think the most iportant of all of them is the fact that he is well known and other teams feel the need to mark him out of the game. For this reason, he may be more of an asset to us than Bernard.

I disagree about the "fear factor" as Bernard is a lot more agressive and gets stuck in.

Robert never does this and you get the impression he is scared by the whole agression thing in the premiership. I have yet to see him go up for a header in a 70/30 situation never mind 50/50. Don't tell me wingers should NEVER head the ball. If it means us winning possesion he should be up for it.

Sadly, last night on the premiership, they didn't show Robert watch a man walk past him at the corner flag. I would put this under attitude, not ability.

Yes, I did see Robert celebrating with Bellamy last night and was very happy to see it. Whats more it looked genuine.

Does anyone get the feeling Robert and Shearer aren't best of friends?

About the booing issue, I agree that it is totally uncalled for. Infact I haven't heard any booing just little comments. And you often see him loose the ball down the wing then large sections of the milburn paddock stand up and shout at him ect.. I would never boo anyone wearing a black and white shirt. Simply because it will only make things worse for th player. But I could sympathise with those who do, if thy were doing it because they thought a player wasn't giving 100% and wasn't trying. For the record I don't shout abuse at Robert or anyone else and never have done.

I haven't been to any away matches this season but accept he has had better performances away from home.

I don't dislike Robert or think Bernard should start instead of him. Like I said before I am undecided. Before every game @ SJP I have said I that I expect to see the real Robert today and having given him another chance after every match. Now I wonder wether we have seen him at his best already.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Could it be down to tactics that we are not getting the best out of Robert? One of the main criticisms is that he's never in the right place. Is he being told to do this or does he choose to go inside?

Or possibly his injuries, viruses ect.. He was qouted to say he was fully fit before yesterdays game. But if he is struggling with an injury or Flu then he should rest until he's fully fit.

I think every Newcastle fan realises his potetial. He was outstanding in one of the early games of the season, (can't remember which) But haven't seen him do it since. It would be worth resting him for a year if it meat he would perform to his best.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

It's no coincidence that Robert looked 100x better when Elliott got forward to support him.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

I've seen him play maybe 4-5 times this season. In the start of the season I got the feeling we always went trough Solano on the right and never giving Robert the ball. If that is Roberts fault or his teammates I dont know, it's hard to tell watching a game in a pub.

vs Leeds I think he got his fare share of balls and think he did pretty good.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Softie, your analogy of Robert defending compared with O'Brien et al having a shot is spot on, what I've been thinking for a long time but this is easily the best way to explain it.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Interesting one this debate,can I take it a tack forward . From what limited games I have seen Robert play he is no doubt a talented young man. Why is it then when I do see him , sitting with a beer in my hand, football head on , does my mind wander to Trevor Sinclair, ie what would he have done in that attack, full back breaks would Sinclair have gone back with him,how would he link up with Dyer/Bells Shearer etc, would he be good for team moral? The biggest little word in the dictionary is "if" , it can be the difference between finishing first or second, winning or losing,it is reaching the critical stage now when I am asking myself "What if we had bought Sinclair instead of Robert", I am positive in my own mind that this may well have been the missing link in our quest to gain success, not decrying Robert but it is a fine margin.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

There was one moment yesterday when he drifted in past Bowyer and got to the line - he hit the 1st man with his cross but it was brilliant.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Buff

I undertsand exactly what you're saying but it wouldn't make the difference. Sinclair would have added defensively I have no doubt of that and he does contribute positively but he doesn't have that fear of God factor which matters so much. I used to pleasure myself at the thought of sides doubling up on Shearer and also on Ginola and also of Beardsley and contemplating it on Gillespie but then realising it left Ferdinand and Lee and maybe Tino in one on ones. We're getting there again. Shearer always takes up 100% of a centre half. Bellamy has become more than enough for one defender so they need to seriousl;y consider doubling up, Dyer pertrifies them, and Solano must have at least one on him despite his inability to beat a player, this is very close to critical mass, Robert just tips it over into uncontrollable. He must have at least one and as a manger I'd be telling my midfield to cover the full back. Suddenly we're there we have the critical mass of offensive talent. In Solano/Dyer/Bellamy/Shearer/Robert we scare everybody we play. Any of them missing and we're better than average, but swapping in say Lee for Robert (as at Man U) means very good defenders can cope.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002

Echo Softie & Dougal. We've had pretenders play on the left since Ginola, Robert's technical ability, skill, control, acuracy of short passes & threat of pace make him the second most valuable left midfielder in the country. Robert could work harder at tracking back if only to put the oposition off, he could make himself available more often but we have balance with him in the side.

-- Anonymous, January 13, 2002