I've recently been studing the "666" verse in Revelations. I have noticed that if you do a strongs concordance search on the phrase it doesn't add up. The words for "six", "hundred", and "threescore" are all found within the text of Revelations but are not used in the "666" phrase. Don't believe me, try it yourself. Look up the words above in " " and you will find that they exsist by theirselves within the book, but not within the phrase in Revelations 13:18.

Does anyone have any idea why this is?

-- anon (me@you.com), January 11, 2002

Answers

Anon,

The phrase I have is

Wisdom is needed here; one who understands can calculate the number of the beast, for it is a number that stands for a person. His number is six hundred and sixty-six. Link

In the Vulgate it's

hic sapientia est qui habet intellectum conputet numerum bestiae numerus enim hominis est et numerus eius est sescenti sexaginta sex

Which is also 666.

I don't understand what you mean when you say this doesn't add up.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 12, 2002.

Frank,
Annie [I just can't get used to calling someone "anon"] is quoting from the King James Version, which states:
"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."
The KJV is the translation from which was compiled Strong's Concordance, the very old, massive tome used for finding all verses that contain a specific word -- i.e., all verses in that incomplete bible version.

The RSV and other modern versions (as in your NAB quotation) have "six hundred and sixty-six" or "666," agreeing with the Vulgate and the Greek (transliterated as "hexakosioi hexEkonta hex)."

Annie, are you talking about a seeming anomaly -- something that appears to be an error -- in Strong's? In other words, when you look up "six" (Greek hex) in Strong's, it surprises you by not pointing to Rev. 13:18? There is a reason for this, though I think that it is pretty weird.

I noticed that, in an online version of Strong's, the editor of that work seems to have chosen not to incorporate any of the words in the phrase "six hundred threescore and six" as matching Rev. 13:18. Instead he chose to use say that Rev. 13:18 contains a supposed numerological equivalent of 666 in the form of three Greek letters (the last being obsolete): "chi xi stigma." In other words, some scholar long ago seems to have determined that, in the ancient world, each of those three letters not only had a phonological value, but also a numerical value [600 and 60 and 6, I assume] which, when added together, came to 666. For some strange reason, the Stong's editor decided to use this, instead of the actual English words found in the KJV.

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 12, 2002.

Enlightening as usual, John. Strong work.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), January 12, 2002.

John,

no that is not exactly what I am refering to. The strongs concordance says it is a phrase, strongs number "5516"- chi xi stigma. If you do a search on "5516" it does not show up any where. It does however (and this is my point) give other words which the phrase was derived from...... "22", "14", and "4742". Now do a search on those words. It paints a descriptive picture but does not come close to mean 666. How would one say that 666(chi xi stigma) is derived from words which mean......

22- unmaried

14- do good

4742- a mark?

It also says that the word stigma(4742) was an obsolete letter(as a cross) intermediate between the 5th and 6th. Is this "5th and 6th" strongs numbers or just normal numbers? If strongs numbers then we could add the following:

5- abba-meaning title Father

6- abel-meaning second son of Adam or breath, vapor, or spirit

or should 4742 read "5+6" ?

-- anon (me@you.com), January 13, 2002.

I just recently found those places where you can get immediate script translations into other languages. Yikes, amazing!
Which site would I go to to translate the above?
I wished we had those smiley faced attachments where I could add a toungue in cheek here.

-- Chris Coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), January 13, 2002.

Annie, I think that you may be letting your imagination run away with you.
I hope that you haven't fallen for believing some of the sensationalistic, Fundamentalist, "end-times" fantasy that has been published during the last 200 years (especially in the last decade). {_8^D)
There is usually a sort of normal explanation for everything; you don't have to get exotic!

The online entry for Strong's entry #5516 says this:
"5516 chi xi stigma -- the 22d, 14th and an obsolete letter (4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; number representation"
I believe that you have partly misunderstood this Strong's entry, Annie. Though it does refer to Strong #4742 ["(4742 as a cross)"], it is not referring to Strong numbers 22, 14, 5, and 6.

Strong's online concordance says that entry #5516 appears in only one verse (Revelation 13:18). That is, nowhere else in the KJV will you find Strong's rather strange interpretation ["chi xi stigma"] of the Greek words for the number six hundred sixty-six.

I believe that the entry for #5516 (which I just quoted in bold, above) is referring to "chi" as the 22nd letter in the (classical?) Greek alphabet, to "xi" as the 14th letter, and to "stigma" as an obsolete letter that used to be listed between the 5th and 6th letters of the alphabet. (Now do you see why the numbers 22, 14, 5, and 6 were mentioned by Strong?)
Apparently, the Greek word, "stigma," was not only the name of a letter in the ancient alphabet, but a word in its own right -- meaning "mark." Our English word "stigmata" (plural of "stigma") refers to the marks of the nails and spear that wounded Jesus -- marks that have been received by some Catholic mystics through the centuries (e.g., St. Francis of Assisi, possibly even St. Paul).

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 13, 2002.

Sorry, Frank. I forgot to thank you for the nice compliment. JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 13, 2002.

Hi all,

In ancient Greece number symbols as we know them today did not exist. The numerical symbols 1,2,3 etc were adopted in the Western world by the Arabic number nomenclature, later.

In ancient Greece, numbers existed of course, but were represented by the same letters that were used for writting words. The equivalence is as follows:

alpha=1 beta=2 gamma=3 . . theta=8 yota=9 yota alpha=10 and so on.

The original text of Revelation was written in Greek, hence Greek numbers are used (ie letters). In the specific verse mentioning the 'beast' the characteristic number mentioned consists of 3 letters 'chi ksi stigma' which to the Arabic number system used today is indeed number 666. I hope this explanation helps you...

Thanks

Nikos Athens Greece

-- Nikos (nikos_30_hot@hotmail.com), March 28, 2003.

"666" is not the only number, but the most common number.

I don't have my books with me at this time so I can't give you the other numbers that also refer to the "beast".

rod

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 28, 2003.

I've been studing this for many years and there is a reason all this don't add up. I have never shared this with anyone but perhaps the time has come to reveal the truth.If you read enough you will find that the number of the beast is not actually "666" but "66" + the mark.The mark is the number 4742 which is the cross and the beast is "Jesus" which is 2424 in Greek or "6"& "6" & 4742. At last the mystery is solved it is basically an attack on Relegion Namely the Catholic Church. The Pope is the Anti-Christ based on the KJV of the bible. Good Luck On your search for the truth beware though most relegions don't have a clue!

-- Tom Allen (oneseptday@aol.com), April 08, 2003.

I see, Tom.
Then you must feel a great kinship -- I should even say an identity -- with "most relegions."

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 11, 2003.

I don't know if this idea is very popular, but I have been doing my own study on my own and I have concluded that the number of the beast is a sort of cryptic on spiritual adultery. All throughout the old testament, there are references to Harlotry and Babylon. 1Kings 10:14- 11:6 might shed some light on the Last Days Falling Away prophecy. King Solomon recieved 666 talents from Arabian kings yearly. Later, he fell into worshipping of Idols because his many wives (Canaanite women) turned his heart to other detestable gods. He did evil in the sight of God. We are supposed to follow Jesus' example and not to love money (The money-changers was an example of greed that he despised). No one can buy or sell without taking the "mark". The greek letters appear to be "X" "E" "S". If you think real hard about it, The old testament was written in Hebrew, which reads from right to left. Suddenly, as Jesus, the fulfillment of the Law and Prophets (Come Lord Jesus and fulfill the rest!)appears, we are reading from left to right. Obviously, Jesus already knew that we would be using Roman letters in the English language, and the number "six" in Latin is "SEX". People are "marrying" and giving in "marriage" (symbolically) at the time of the end. We are supposed to be "Chaste virgins" until he comes, the marriage bed remaining "undefiled" The Anti-christ represents "adultery", or better yet "S" "E" "X" before marriage, spiritually speaking. Reading XES as the so-called Jews(nothing against Jewry, but Jesus said they were not Jews) would read it(Jesus called them the devil's children, because they refused to believe He was the Messiah)the one's who follow Anti-christ will have defiled the Marrige bed (We are all Jews in Christ Jesus, the Branch which we were grafted into. We are His Chosen, those who hear His voice) I'm not sure which chapter and verse, but it is in the Gospels. But it is stated that "not one of them was lost(His sheep), except the "Man of Perdition"(Judas-sold Jesus out for the price of a slave- 30 pieces of silver-greed) All of the Jewish people will be saved if they hear the Shepherd's voice calling. We should be calling them.

I just stumbled across this forum and thought I'd put my 2 cents in (2 cents not intended the way it sounds)

It's about SEX and money, the driving forces of worldly pleasure. Anyone agree?

-- Malcolm Lambert (mmddll@att.net), May 07, 2003.

Just something to add... The verse is "Here is "WISDOM". Let he who has understanding reckon the number of the beast..."

Keyword=WISDOM Solomon was the wisest man on earth in his time. But he goofed. Here is wisdom 7 blasphemous names on the head of the beast could be the detestable Pagan gods of Mystery Babylon. "And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name."

The "sea" is the basin in the temple called the "bronze sea", which was used for the Priests washing (before entering the sanctuary?) The beast might represent "uncleaness", maybe seven major religions infiltrating the Gospel of Jesus Christ, thereby polluting the Gospel.

The Anti-christ, it is believed, will try to bring about one religion by combining all of them together. There are alot of people who would like to see this happen, probably, for the sake of world peace. That is what the "New Age" movement is all about.

As for me and my family, we will serve the Lord Jesus Christ only! There is no other name by which we MUST be saved. Exalt His Holy Name On High! Praise the Lord!

-- Malcolm Lambert (mmddll@att.net), May 07, 2003.

Malcolm,
You are seemingly a thinking man and a lover of Jesus Christ. A thinking man will see this detail most readily: history is littered with wise men who attempted to unlock the meaning of ''666'''. You might sense where I'm going now.

A lover of Jesus Christ will place all faith in Him; with no undue obligation in his life to parse these verses on Bible mysteries. Mysteries are not for solving they are for meditating. You've meditated, but you also call your conclusions ''truth''.

It is written that Anti-Christ is to deny the Father & the Son. It's primarily the Church that has revealed to us an apostolic truth we call the Holy Trinity. The Apostle's Creed demands we believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Anti-Christ will necessarily be anti-Catholic, to deny the Apostles' Creed. I expect that if you're a non-Catholic and a Bible Christian, you'll regard this as spurious. It's not. It is self-evident. The Catholic Church is teaching since the beginning all the apostolic truth.

The Holy Trinity is a Catholic doctrine from antiquity. Anti-Christ will come and deny the doctrine, So-- will you know him when he arrives? Is he going to deny all Catholic doctrine? I believe these questions overshadow any problem related to ''666''; since they are sure to hinge on our FAITH, not speculation on the ''beast's'' sign.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), May 07, 2003.

Shalom Tom,

The mark according to our text it is described as "exakosioi exekonta ex". Now exakosioi means six hundred (1812) and exekonta means sixty (1835) and ex means six, or six hundred sixty-six, according to The New Strong's Complete Dictionary of Biblical Words, Ed. James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D. Thomas Nelson Pub. Nashville © 1996. It's a number that follows 665 and precedes 667. As for the claim that its "6" & "6" + the mark, this isn't verifiable from our text- The New Greek English Interlinear New Testament Ed. J.D.Douglas, Tyndale House Pub. Inc. Ill. © 1990 and goes against everything we learned about this mark.

Also you made a statement that "The Pope is the Anti-Christ based on the KJV of the bible." Clearly this note in the KJV is interpretative and therefore shown to be taken with a grain of salt as there is nothing in the text of Chapter 13 in Revelation that would suggest this conclusion from what we can see.

Furthermore, you stated:

>>> When I wrote my opinion I did not say that it was something I supported I only stated it was my interpretation of the KJV of the Bible. >>>

However your exact words were:

>>> At last the mystery is solved it is basically an attack on Religion Namely the Catholic Church. >>>

This sounds a lot like a conclusion, whether you meant to make this or not. We suspect it is your conclusion because you added:

>>> In reality I always thought the Catholic Church was more loving to all humans of any race. >>>

and then followed it with:

>>> Until the truth was revealed and it has shown that the priest have destroyed the spirit of the children while raping them in the flesh to fulfill the desires they try to pretend they don't have. Perhaps you are one of those men who is a member of a religion that is drunken with the blood of the saints and have destroyed the lives of many children in the name of a False Christ! >>>

Unfortunately, from what we have seen in this post you had a claim for receiving respect in your opinion, however then you seem to have taken up the robes of your "oppressors". Please allow us to remind you of a repeating theme that is found throughout the New Testament, one that states to judge not lest you be judged! The measure you give is the measure you will receive. So, please consider these clear teachings of Scripture before you make another attack in judgment upon the Catholic Church, a follower of the Catholic Church or even another believer.

Shalom, C & C

-- C.Foegen (cfoegen@angelfire.com), September 11, 2003.

well 666 just lets you know when satan is coming 6seal,6 trumpet,and 6vail hope that helps

-- greg k (greg@msn.com), September 25, 2003.

that everyone who endures to the end without accepting the mark of the beast (Chi xi stigma, or the tattoo [stigma] of Xx [Chi xi]) will be saved;

-- Carolyn Smith-Kizer (cskizer@yahoo.com), October 01, 2003.

I cannot say that I know what the truth behind six hundred sixty and six is. I do however thanks to the scripture know that it will not have any effect on a christian. Because the scripture says that Christ will come and take his people befor the tribulation. Any that are left and would see the truth will have their mind clouded so that they too shall be deceived. As for all the talk about the Catholic church and the priests. Understand this I do not believe all the saved are in any on particular denomination but shall be made up of all people that have followed the truths given by our Lord and Savior Jesus.( Love ) the very basis to what Christ was trying to show and teach. It is what he did and what he gave. Love the Lord Your God with all your heart and soul and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself. Following these 2 principles and everything else falls into place. With this as your goal the number 666 really has no bearing to salvation, because when it matters you won't be here. If you are God have mercy because you shall be deceived and lost. God bless all.

-- J. D. Harris (jd9316@yahoo.com), October 26, 2003.

I see everyone looking at this in Greek what about Hebrew writting and the use of gematria.see http://www.inner.org/gematria/gematria.htm

-- Philip Sheppard (cottontop09657@aol.com), February 27, 2004.

TP GET BACK TO THE POINT...

The KJV is right, so are all Bible versions.

a score is 20. Three score is 60. Thus, the number beign six hundred three score and six ius 666.

Just like Lincolnc speach "Four score and seven years ago" meant 87 yeaers ago, a score is 20. Therefore the King Jmaes Bible is in full agreeance with other Bible versions.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), February 27, 2004.

I'm not sure I understand all the posts here, so please bear with me. I read in "A Catholic Interpretation Of the Apocolypse" that the most probable candidate that fits 666 is Nero Caesar". Is this the prevailing Catholic view?

-- Mark Advent (adventm5477@earthlink.net), March 01, 2004.

Mark,
Yes it is.

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@Hotmail.com), March 01, 2004.

Yes, 666 is mostlikely Nero. The best evidence for this is that not all ancient manuscripts have 666. Some have 616. If you use the Greek Nero adds up to 666, but if you do it in Latin then Nero adds up to 616.

There is secondary meaning here though. Numbers have symbolic meaning. 7 is the perfect number. 3 represents infinity (Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lamb=infinitely holy). 6 is not seven, that is: not perfect. 666 is infinitly 6. 666 is infinitely not 7. 6 gets up in the morning, tries hard all day and goes to bed . . .6.

Dano

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), March 02, 2004.

I have studied this to great extent as many of you. I have come to the conclusion 666 is as one post says 66 + the mark. I believe, since this is the mystery of babylon and the image of babylon was 60X6. The names of the 3 children of Israel in captivity is the mark. They took 3 Hebrew children, their names were marked no longer by Yahweh, the youths were dedicated to false gods.

Hananiah(Yahweh is gracious) was named Shadrach(Command of Aku) after the sun-god; Mishael(Who is like unto Elohim) was named Meshach (Who is like Aku)after the earth-god; Azariah(Yahweh is my helper)was named Abednego(Servant of Nebu) after the fire-god; and Daniel(Elohim is my judge) was given the name of Belteshazzar(Bel protect his life), after their chief god. The mystery of the whore of babylon is the word church, from germanic kirke, greek circe. The Daughter of the sun who got men drunk with a golden cup and turned them to swine. http://messiah.sequimpc.com/

-- Lyle Kingsley (messiah@sequimpc.com), March 30, 2004.

I agree with Father Echert of EWTN who said:

"The whore of Babylon is symbolic of unbelieving Judaism of the first century located at Jerusalem which persecuted first Christ and then the early Church, riding upon the beast which is the Roman Empire which was its unholy ally and source of much of its power to persecute the Church. A careful examination of the writings of the Jewish historian Josephus and others reveal details which are convincing, even compelling, in such a view.

"Many modern scholars interpret the Whore of Babylon to be Rome rather than Jerusalem, in part because of some allusions in the vision of the Woman upon the Beast which are strikingly like the ancient Empire."

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 30, 2004.

666:

6 - This reminds us that the Antichrist will be a man because 6 is the # of man (Man was created on the 6th day).

666 - This reminds us that the Antichrist will be a memeber of an unholy trinity (Satan, Beast, False Prophet).

-- Scott (scott_pk99@yahoo.com), October 19, 2004.