What would Bishop Richard Allen say...?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : A.M.E. Today Discussion : One Thread

This question popped into my mind while reading comments from the other topics. If Bishop Richard Allen were to see the African Methodist Episcopal Church today, what do you think he would say? Besides electing the first African American woman as a Bishop, what other items might grabbed his attention? Have fun...I sure did! Ray Allen

-- Anonymous, January 10, 2002


What happened!!!!!!!! The female bishop would have been expected by him, I'm sure. He would be amazed to see how far we have fallen; from depending on God to depending on "programs" and fundraisers.


Pastor Paris

-- Anonymous, January 10, 2002

I think Bishop Richard Allen would be amazed at how many A.M.E churches we have around the world. I think he would be excited that we are part of the Methodist World Counsel. I think he would be happy that we continued his dream of further education and that we have our own universities. I think he would be thrilled that Mother Bethel is still here, he would be happy that we have our own insurance company, that are pastors, are active in politics, we were a powerful force within the civil rights movement. I think he would be proud we did not change our name. He would be moved that own our own property. I think he would be honored that we hold him in such high regard and love.

-- Anonymous, January 10, 2002

It is my firm belief that Richard Allen would not be very pleased with where the Free African Society - the African Methodist Episcopal Church is today. Most, if not all, of our colleges and universities are not accredited, we have no hospitals, we have no elementary, junior (middle) or high schools, there are no job training programs or businesses to help elevate our people. The jails and prisons are full to the brim with our husbands, wives, fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, etc. (enough to have many, many, many mega- churches) while we sit behind our stained glass windows wringing our hands trying to come up with a 'program' to raise money for the budget.

It is said that a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. We've made a step - elected a woman bishop. Other than that, I'm hard pressed to find one other thing that Richard Allen would consider noteworthy.

Pastor Allen, I didn't have fun, but since you did, would you please share? (smile)

Love and peace,

Rev. J

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2002

Rev. Wiggs, I could not agree with your answer more. My question is how do we stop what is going on in the AME church? How and when will the politicing stop? My heart grieves at the General Conferences. I want to stand up in the midst and just scream to the top of my lungs "STOP!" I feel as though instead of the Gospel being spread from the AME hierarchy down, God's people are working to feed the AME hierarchy. What happened to the Great Commission? Second, what happened to the AME Mission statement? I know there are good churches,pastors and bishops who are trying to work according to God's purpose, but the AME church is sorely lacking.

How can all of this business with no fruitful outcome stop? I cannot speak for Allen, but I do know that God is not pleased.

Thank you BB for letting me vent.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2002

First things first. Mary, calm down. I'm looking forward to reading more of your thoughtful comments (and tasting your home cooking @ the AME Today reunion in Philly)but this may be hindered if you have an emotional breakdown. It is indeed frustrating to convince folks to "do the right thing" and eschew from the corrupting influence of secular politics. But, it is not worth the elevated blood pressure. Change will come about from either enlightened internal opposition or enlightened external opposition to the present day chicannery which negates this Zion from effective Kingdom Building. I agree that Bishop Allen would be amazed at how our General Conferences are orchestrated political events. We are fixated on currying favor to elect individuals yet the very social fabric of our communities (as outlined by Rev. J) steadily decays. Prayer & Fasting will ultimately make a change difference. I once read a book in my salad undergraduate days called "Things Fall Apart" by Chinua Achebe. Although the book spoke about the slow cultural disintegration in newly independent Nigeria, the title would be equally prescient for the AMEC. QED

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2002

My dear Sister,

I do understand your frustration, but we must remember that UR the church. Without the UR, the Church of Jesus Christ would just be 'Chch' and that is like sounding brass and tinkling symbols. So, each one of us must do our part to carry the message to those who are blind, deaf, full of the devil, and in prison. That's where the great commission and the mission statement is at it's best.

We must remember that Jesus didn't have a denomination to get his message out. He just had 12 handpicked disciples, and one of them was full of the devil, but after the Holy Ghost fell on those that were in one place and on one accord, people repented. Then when Peter, James, John and the others went out with the message, they turned the world upside down.

So, you see, dear sister, it all begins with one person. There are thousands of God's servants doing God's work, God's way and that should give us much hope.

I'm sure that the frustration of our people is not with the few who are holding up the banner of the Lord, because I've been hearing for years the aggitation of our people and it stems from what seems to be the misplaced priorities of our connectional denomination's hierarchy.

We must pray without ceasing that all of God's people connected with this part of the body of Christ will get a fresh anointing of the Holy Ghost and activate the "GO" in Gospel.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2002

Thank you Bill and Rev. Wiggs for your entries. You are right, God does answer prayer. I do not fast as I should but I will set one day aside for fasting and intercessory prayer on behalf of God's children and the AME Church (which I love and was raised in).

Can I get some prayer partners out there? Is there someone out there that will pray and fast with me?

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2002

I am new to the A.M.E denomination but I have been a pastor for 14 years. The focus on money and politics and false idols are the very things that the prophets in the old testament spoke out against. And every denomination is dealing with these issues.Isaiah who was a prophet in Jerusalem was not silent when he saw the powers that be take money from the poor, neglect the blind and the imprisonment of those who were innocent. But the recurring theme of Isaiah was that God would send one who would free the captives, and bring justice into the world of darkness. Isa. 42. Isaiah and the other prophets had their faith and hope to keep them strong for the Messiah had not come. We must rejoice for Jesus is with us, and the Holy Spirit. There is nothing on this earth or in any church that God does not see. He will do a new things. As disciples of Christ we must act as if we know justice will rain down. That is one of the legacies of Bishop Richard Allen. He defied slavery, poverty and racism, because he heard the liberating message of Christ. There will be times when we get weary and we feel God is not listening or watching. God's time is not our time. I want to share a story with you. The state of Montana has become the headquarters for the world church of the creator. A white supremacist group,Matt Hale is the president, last week he was in the state of Pennsylvania. His organization is credited with 4 deaths in illinois. This monday on Martin Luther King Day. All three A.M.E ministers in Montana will be speaking throughout the state. I will actually be speaking in the town Matt Hale lives. The mayor and the city counsel invited me. There is evil in our state and God is dealing with it. Since the mid 1800's the A.M.E church has been in Montana. We were here in 1932 When Montana had more KKK cell groups than any other state. The A.M.E's were not silent! God wants us in the world proclaiming his will for justice. Despite the problems we may have, we are still taking care of business. Laity has a lot of power. Let us pray and iniate programs for God. Do not dispair for God's hand is on this denomination. And when we call on the name of Jesus he answers our prayers.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2002

Mary you must have posted while I was writing my post. I will be your prayer partner.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2002

Thank you for your encouraging words Rev. Rogers. God has blessed you and Rev. Wiggs with strength, depth and courage. One day I would like to hear the two of you preach.

I will pray for your strength on the Martin Luther King service.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2002

Mary I love preaching!!!! When I wake up on Sunday I am a new person. I preach a lot about justice issues and God's will. Scripture tells us to encourage one another and that is what we do on this board. Keep me in prayer for my speech on Martin Luther King Day. God loves you so much Mary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2002

Good morning, to all of God's children.

Mary, we thank God for you not only because you recognize that there are some mole hills turned mountains that need to be removed, but most of all, for your fervent spirit. Not only that, you also recognize that some things only come about through fasting and prayer.

Some years ago, I had the opportunity to preach an Ash Wednesday service and the Spirit revealed to me to begin my fast with the list you see below. During the Lenten season, I've used the partial list below to encourage those we encounter to do a self examination. Over the years, my list has really grown and it offers me a measure of accountability. Here are a few things that we can add to our fasting and prayer list:

Fast from criticism and feast on praise. Fast from anger and feast on peace. Fast from fear and feast on faith. Fast from doubt and feast on love.

"Father, I ask you to bless my friends, relatives and email buddies reading this right now. Show them a new revelation of your love and power. Holy spirit, I ask you to minister to their spirit at this very moment. Where there is pain, give them your peace and mercy. Where there is self doubt, release a renewed confidence through your grace, In Jesus' precious name. Amen

There's victory in Jesus!!!

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2002

I have read all of your comments and I must admit that some very strong points have been made. I am one who believes that even in seeing with his own eyes, Richard Allen would just be amazed! His times weren't much different from our own today. WE have more liberty in our worship, we have more finances for our Zion, we have more education in our local bodies. We however are losing that spiritual momentum that first brought our Zion together. We have come a mighty long way yet our young people do not wish to participate in our rich heritage. If nothing else, Richard Allen would be in disarray because our Zion is losing ground. The reality is that there is so much more attractive things drawing our youth (including myself). What makes our Zion great is that in the midst of all these other charismatic fellowships, we have not failed to retain a rich history and impact on this country. Richard Allen would be proud to know that AME's are doing great things on the local, state and national levels of our country's government to bring about a continuing liberation for all men and women.

-- Anonymous, January 16, 2002

Moderation questions? read the FAQ