Is it just me but....when an animal is very sick or injured or your child is very ill, does it make sense to post the forum and sit and wait for answers, or does it make more sense to call a doctor?

I know a vet is expensive but you have an investment to protect as well as a commitment to the animal.

When it comes to a child, I understand again the cost of doctors and medicine and the trust issues; however, why risk the health of your child to people on the forum.

Please don't misunderstand, I am not meaning to be critical, but when life is at stake doesn't common sense kick in at some point and pride go out the door?

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002

Answers

I think you make a good point here, Karen. Some have posted really serious health issues here, and I myself wouldn't wait. Many healthcare plans have Nurse lines you can call, and also send out books that basically run through the symptoms for you so that you can decide. I have found the books to be really helpful.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 07, 2002.

I think another fear people have these days is if they go to the doctor for something, anything, it goes on their record, and at some point in the future they will be uninsurable because of this.

Myself, I believe that unless you are (or have) smoking, drinking, or doing drugs, you shouldn't be excluded from getting coverage. You can't choose your parents. Pre-existing conditions (unless clearly shown to be from smoking, drinking, or drugs) should not be a factor in deciding your health insurance premiums. Just as you can get hit by a car at any time, you can also come down with a serious illness at any time.

I for one am glad to have the internet, because it gives us much more in the way of being able to research health issues--you're not limited to your local library or bookstore anymore.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 07, 2002.

I think the gentleman said he could not find a vet to look at the goat. Yes, I'd call til I found one, but maybe he really truly can't.

-- Shannon at Grateful Acres Animal Sanctuary (gratacres@aol.com), January 07, 2002.

I agree with you comment about finding a Dr when your 2 legged loved one or kids are involved. HOWEVER, Shannon, I have to disagree with you here about calling til you find a vet, however i appreciate your consideration to the fact he probably can't. You may have that luxary where you live to find a competant vet, especially for large animals and specifically goats. Most of us do not and have to help each other. I thank God for the internet because of the vast resources and help. And it its too complicated there is a ER 911 site for folks. So thats the bottom line for many of us.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002.

If I don't call a degreed individual for health issues, it's because I feel I can handle it or it's something people don't normally call a doctor for. As for getting suggestions, advice or experience from forum members, doctor's probably wouldn't be so overloaded if more people took responsibility for their own health. When my daughter's finger began swelling after a good smashing in a door, we went right to the emergency room. Hairline fracture, no cast brace or anything, just anti-biotic. Paid over $500 for it. I could have figured that out and treated it myself if I wasn't worried about a nosy neighbor calling the state on me for a whole lot cheaper. Headlice? I've never heard of anyone going for the doctor. Neither did the local emergency room until this week when 5 kids were brought in for it. Doc's advice? Mayonaise. Neighbor's advice before contacting the doctor? Mayonaise. Why pay big money for something you may be able to learn from neighbors, grandma, or forum members? Bronchitis and sinus infection-doc prescribes anti-biotics which lowers good bacteria and brings on yeast infection which requires another prescription with side affects. Forum-cayanne, black pepper and tomatoe juice, cleared up with no side affects and free(except for cost of a few food items). Sometimes doctors don't work and it's not a matter of pride, but of choice. I choose to be responsible for my animals and children as well as my own health. I choose to go the more natural way instead of compounding or trading one illness for another if I can. I know when I'm over my head and need a professional. I trim my horses' feet, but a farrier shoes the race horses we own. I don't automatically believe everything I'm told, but I listen and learn. If you're not comfortable with it, I don't recall anyone telling you you had to ask the forum. Some go to child psychologists to learn to parent, some learn from experienced people and experience. The same principle can apply to many aspects of life. Get a lawyer or go pro- se? Send kids to school or school at home? Some of us are just a bit more independent and openminded. Second opinions are always a smart thing to look into, just because they don't have some fancy paper on their wall doesn't mean they don't know from experience what works and what doesn't. Another note: I asked my professional caregiver if she had heard of optional treatments to thrush for my breastfeeding infant, she said no, they just know what pharmaseautical companies try to sell them, they don't have time to keep up on all new info. I threw out the prescription, did garlic, good bacteria and honey on the nipples and it was gone cheaply, effectively, and without side affects. Same thing happened when we took a racehorse to the vet. Vet said it was hopeless, horse's leg would collapse any day and there was no way to treat it. I had done research, asked him about a specific supplement, he said he doesn't have time to keep up with all the new info. Supplement was my choice and three years later, that horse still runs and bucks with the rest in the pasture. If the professionals themselves admit they can't do the research I can, why would I jump up to call them?

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002.

Epona, they don't have "urgent care" centers where you live, which might have been a bit cheaper? I only ask because our hospital newsletter (sent quarterly), had a little list of what was "urgent" and what was considered "emergency room", and fractures were listed as "urgent" (surprised me). For some insurances, the co-pay is cheaper for an urgent care visit than an emergency room visit.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 07, 2002.

No, we don't have any urgent care centers:( I had no insurance on that child at the time and we had to go through x-rays and such. The local hospital is renowned for it's misdiagnosises and the butt of many jokes. I tried to take her to our family practitioner first, but they sent us to the hospital for x-rays without even seeing her. The closest we have to cheap medical practice is a clinic that just opened up which will see you for free if your case qualifies on Wednesdays by appointment. The next closest hospital is 45 minutes away.

-- Epona (crystalepona2000@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002.

There are many areas where it is truly impossible to find a vet who knows anything about or will 'stoop' to work on a goat. It is not any coincidence that most long time goat owners do most of their own vetting, we have to or the animal simply would not get treated! Or worse, would get the wrong treatment and then charged pet prices for it!! The only time I call my vet is when I absolutely positively cannot do it myself, and I have been a little surprised at how much a person really can do themselves. The vet is happier with this, I can afford to keep my goats, and the goats don't just sit in the barn and die waitin gfor me to raise vet money.

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), January 08, 2002.

Being a librarian I can't resist telling you about some books that might make a difference in health care on the homestead:

1st: We used this book in Tanzania for many things. Where there is no doctor: a village health care handbook, ed. David Werner. ISBN 0942364013. It is meant for villages without health care workers, but is also helpful on the homestead. Also good for those with low literacy skills (lots of pictures, etc.) It is also published in just about any language you'd like. If anyone is interested the publisher is: The Hesperian Foundation, PO Box 1692, Palo Alto, CA 94302.

2nd: Our pet is a dog, so these are the books we purchased when we got him. Of course there are many other health care books available for other types of animals. Field Guide to Dog First Aid: Emergency Care for the Outdoor Dog, by Randy Acker ISBN 1885106041 and Hands-on Dog Care: The Complete Book of Canine First Aid, by Sue M. Copeland and John A. Hamil ISBN 0944875688.

The library is a great place to check for books on health care, if they keep their books updated.

But again, in an emergency, if possible, I'd suggest calling a professional.

-- hmm (h.m.metheny@att.net), January 08, 2002.

If you go down a few threads you will see my follow up to my question. I find it very offensive to suggest that some of us ask a question and then sit at the computor for answers, again, look at my original post and you will see what I was doing during this time. I don't need anyone beating me up over this as I am doing a very good job of it myself. If you have a vet handy great for you. I'm sorry I am kind of upset right now and know that you mean well. Most people here are very,very vailable to us "newbies" please give us the chance to ask our question and get a reply. The answer we get may be the answer that saves our animals faster than trying to get a vet. Now, looking back I would have looked for a vet the very first day I got the goats and then I would have had one but being new to goats I,m ignorant and thought that when I needed one I would have no problem finding one but, I was wrong. I will continue to post questions if I feel that I need to and I hope that those who have been very helpful will continue to help me with my problems. I have already learned so much from the answers to my questions. I am not upset with any of you for questioning. I know that you have a legit question yourself. Thanks George

-- george (bngcrview@aol.com), January 08, 2002.

George,

I can really appreciate your sediments about the tone of some of the replies. Please understand that this forum has undergone some changes recently in the participants. This forum was once a great place for folks to discuss any topic and folks were respectful and helpful, actually it was more like a family. Then slowly it grew and as it grew folks with different viewpoints joined in. This is probably where the friction comes from in that some of the newcomers to this forum are, as I put it in one post, "Homesteader wanna be's!" and to an extent this group has caused many of us to re- examine our own thoughts and beliefs. But then it has also created friction and disrespect for the values and thoughts of others. There is a nice way and a wrong way to get one's point across and many just hit the keyboard without thinking. The results are hurt feelings, folks being offended and fighting, and then name calling erupts.

I wish I had an answer for you George, but all I can suggest is to hang in there and disregard the ignorance and insolance.

-- Bernice (geminigoats@yahoo.com), January 08, 2002.