Hi guys.. some problems..

3 days ago, I shot a roll of fuji superia 200 on an M3 50 cron--NO PROBLEMS WATSOVER.

2 days ago, I sot with the same gear on XP2---PRINTS ON SOME CAME OUT WITH 3 BLACK STRAIGHT LINES RUNNING ACROSS THE UPPER LENGTH OF THE PRINT.

The lines are faint, but visible, and annoying. SOme prints are ok, especially those shot indoors. Those outdoors are mostly affected.

Today I shot a roll of Kodak TCn 400 using same gear. Only ONE print has the same problem but the black lines are very much fainter as compared to those on XP2's.

For the last 3 days, I did not DROP OR BANGED the camera or the lens. I did not scratch the curtain or the back plate.

Everything was as normal 4 days ago before I had problems starting with the XP2.

Few things I can do...1) change film and check. 2) change lab and check. 3) change lens or camera or both and check.

I am pretty sure the camera and lens wasn't tampered with before I had this problem.

I am suspecting its the XP2 or the LAB.

Before I get any definite conclusions, ANY IDEAS????!!! ;););)

-- Travis koh (polar@cyberdude.com), January 07, 2002

Answers

As long as the faults do not appear on each negative I wouldn't blame it on the camera (Although theoratically it could occur due to temperature difference per shot or pressure when holding it, but this is very unlikely) As it is on different films I would check the lab. Also you can look at the way your films are stored, have they been is some bright light? As it seems to get less, try another film.

Reinier

-- ReinierV (rvlaam@xs4all.nl), January 07, 2002.

I suspect the problem is a combination of a careless processor and a film XP2 Super, which is supposed to be prone to scratches. I've read where people have trouble with scratches with the XP2 and others have not. I've shot to date almost a dozen rolls of the film and not one scratch has appeared. I'm fortunate to use an excellent lab who does a lot of work for professional photogs. The fact that there also minor scratches on the TCN film,which is resistant to scratching, indicates that your processor is not careful. I think the scratches are more noticable on the outdoor shots might be that typically the negatives on outdoor shots tend to be denser than indoor especially with a wide latitude C-41 B&W film. If the emulsion is scratched off I guess the light passing thru the negative would create a darker line.

-- Gerry Widen (gwiden@alliancepartners.org), January 07, 2002.

Gerry thanks...but

if the outdoors negs are denser, wouldn't they be more difficult to be scratched? and hence the lines less dark?

anyway, why 3 STRAIGHT HORIZONTAL BLACK LINES??

-- Travis koh (polar@cyberdude.com), January 07, 2002.

By denser I mean that the negative appears darker (less clear) when looking directly at it. I think the lines are cause by the negatives being drawn over equiptment. For example if a piece of finishing equiptment had a rough edge as the negatives were pulled over the spot it would appear as a line. There are differet kinds of processing equiptment and I'm sure other people could explain what happened better.

-- Gerry Widen (gwiden@alliancepartners.org), January 07, 2002.

Gerry, ok..not as in THICK..;) got it.

anyway...the lab says its the shutter problem. What?! I have check the blades, they r CIRCULAR. The back film plate, is, well, FLAT.

Do u really thing the lens or camera could have done this?

seriously...XP2 SUCKS even without this episode.

-- Travis koh (polar@cyberdude.com), January 07, 2002.

One way we used to catch out labs that we contracted our developing out to was only shoot 3/4 of a film and rewind it back into the canisiter. If the negs are scratched through the whole film including the last 1/4 that never left the film canister its has to be your lab.

-- Joel Matherson (joel_2000@hotmail.com), January 07, 2002.

Joel, good point.

Thing is, in my XP2 roll, the unexposed negs are scratchless, but some exposed outdoors pics are. So by your definition, the LAB IS OK?

and why hadnt it happened on the fuji 200 I shot 3 days ago?

The xp2 roll was LINED. the TCN 400 is fine except one neg. The fuji is FINE.

Im confused. I will be trying another color film tomorrow just to be sure.

-- Travis koh (polar@cyberdude.com), January 07, 2002.

Deduce with a process of simple elimination.

1. Use a different lab, same film, same camera. 2. Use the same lab, same film, different camera. 3. Use a same lab, fifferent film, same camera.

-- Yip (koklok@krdl.org), January 07, 2002.

To check if the camera or shutter casues the scratches: use a roll of film that you suspect and shoot as usual. After shooting all the exposures, rewind the film into the canister leaving the tail outside. DO NOT process the film, pull the film slowly out from the canister and examine the film with a loupe. If there are no horizontal scratches, then your camera or shutter is clean - it must be your lab causing all the scratches.

-- tom tong (tom.tong@ckh.com.hk), January 07, 2002.

Hi, Travis:

I have experienced similar problems with XP2 which is the only B&W film I presently use and the symptoms are the same as randomly distributed as you mention. I blame a combination of low scratch resistance properties of the emulsion (which seems to be a well stablished fact regarding XP2, as per postings in this site; I don't remember having experienced the same problem with TCN400 but then again I have shot only one 100 ft roll of it) and the fact that the rewind procedure in the M3 is subject to more variable tensions/efforts than in cameras with a rewind crank because of the way the torque is excerted. That would explain why the damage is not a constant occurrence. Following that line of reasoning I have tried extra care in applying uniform effort to rewinding the film and have noticed that the rate of incidence of this failure has actually decreased though not gone down to zero. Main problem: time consuming to do, of course.

My 2 cents . . .

Please post definitive findings if you can.

Cheers.

-Iván

-- Iván Barrientos M (ingenieria@simltda.tie.cl), January 08, 2002.

hey guys...it happened on the TCN400 too..4 black lines running across the top frame of the print.

All occured in the OUTDOOR BRIGHT SUNLIT SHOTS.

My developer suggest that it could be the curtain shutter leaking.

Will check with the camera vendor again.

;(

-- Travis koh (polar@cyberdude.com), January 13, 2002.

Travis, your developer will always suggest that it isn't his fault. Light leaks would presumably lead to _light_ lines across the film, not tramlines. Believe me, the chances are very high that it's the lab, they can screw anything up and you have no real comeback. They are generally obliged to give you a free replacement film, however, and if you insist on this often enough they may change their tune.

Above all don't ask their opinion about it, just tell them it's their fault and get the replacement films.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), January 13, 2002.