I just got some photos back from processing and was looking at the negs with a loupe and noticed faint scratches that run the length of the film on the non-emulsion (shiny) side. I dug out all my negs I've taken with this M6TTL and nearly all of them have these scratches! I've been to at least five different developers since getting this camera several months ago, so doubtful that the scratches are their fault. The scratches don't show on the prints, but I don't have anything printed larger than 5x7. I looked at my old Nikon negs and have no such scratches.

Are these scratches a big deal? I looked at the Leica repair form and there is a check box for "scratches on film" which makes me think this is a known problem. I really don't want to send it to NJ, but hey, that's why I forked out the $$ for the warranty. Thanks for any info/advice.

-- Ken Geter (kgeter@yahoo.com), January 04, 2002

Answers

Most likely these faint scratches ARE from the lab. If labs use something other than a dip-and-dunk processor, the film runs back through the cassette felt and then through the machine's rollers. Dip and dunk processors hang the film and lower it into the chemistry (they have other quirks, but are more stable than the 1-hour lab Fujitsu-style machines).

It is not a big deal, but labs tend to get lax about cleaning their machines until there IS a problem and enough people complain. If the scratches were from the camera, most likely the scratches would be slightly erratic (from the advance motion). Check the film passage in the M6 just to make sure, there would be something you could see if the problem was with the camera. I doubt there's any need to send it to NJ.

Hope this helps...Carlin

-- Carlin Mayer (carlinm@abac.com), January 04, 2002.

I had this problem some while ago.

I confirmed it was not the camera by putting a full new film through the camera and taking it out immediately. No scratches. I then knew it was the lab. The cost is only one wasted film but it confirmed the source of the problem.

-- Tony Brookes (gdz00@lineone.net), January 04, 2002.

"roller transport" development very often scratches the neg.s in my experience. It may be that it's your camera - try Tony's eminently sensible suggestion - but I take my films to a pro-lab who will dev. them "dip and dunk" style - that way you don't get the same degree of film damage (hopefully...)

-- steve (stephenjjones@btopenworld.com), January 04, 2002.

Ken, Since I am working with Nikon film scanner (LS4000) which is highly sensitive to scratches (unless you use their software that reduces micro-texture) I become aware of scratch causes. I learned that the main one is dust on the film cartrage before you give it to the lab. any trace of dust will result in some scratches. since I started keeping films in their boxes even after shooting, and using plastic air blower to remove any residuals of dust, scratches reduced dramatically. try it. )

-- Rami (rg272@columbia.edu), January 04, 2002.

Ken, You didn't indicate if the scratches are in the same position on the film. Have a look then refer to some of the good advice persented to you. Additionally, I always use "dip and dunk" processing and have never had a damaged negative. It's available at labs that cater to professionals and might cost a bit more, but well worth it. Good luck.

-- George L. Doolittle (geodoolitt@aol.com), January 04, 2002.

I run a photo lab and scratches on the 'shiny' side aren't a problem. Just use nose grease! yes that sounds disgusting. it's a really old trick.

First wear a clean cotton glove next rub a finger across your nostril or brow. rub the finger across the scratch mark very gently wipe the neg for dust. now you should find the scratch has disappeared from any print. the grease difuses the light transmitted through it.

-- Philip Woodcock (phil@pushbar.demon.co.uk), January 04, 2002.

Back in the middle-production years of the M6 classic there was a rash of bodies with badly-polished pressure-plates that scratched the back side of the film. Early R8 cameras had a plastic guide next to the pressure-plate that wore down over time and scratched the backside of the film. Those may be reasons why Leica's service department has a check-box for "scratches on film". I find that my R7's and R6/6.2 tend to place fine scratches on the back of the film unless I keep the pressure-plates scrupulously clean. I have not determined why this is so, except that like Ken I've never encountered it with Nikons or my Leicaflex SL. One reason may be that the latter have stainless rollers next to the pressure-plate whereas the R bodies have a fixed plastic guide that the film rubs across, and the M bodies have neither roller nor plastic guide, the film just rubs across the bevelled edge of the pressure plate.

In any case, Ken, I would *strongly* suspect the camera, not the lab because as you said, you've used more than one. I would start by cleaning the pressure-plate with a cotton swab moistened with alcohol, then run a roll of outdated film through it and without rewinding, open the camera up and pull out the film and inspect it. If there are no scratches, hand-wind the film back into the cassette and repeat the test, but this time rewind the film. I've found by doing this that at least with R bodies the scratches are inflicted during rewinding, especially if I do it very quickly.

If you're still getting scratches, send the un-processed test roll back to Leica along with the camera...so you won't get the same response you got from all the above posts, blaming the lab.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), January 04, 2002.

Actually there is a way to tell whether it is the lab or the camera.

If the scratch runs end to end then it is the Lab's fault or the velvet on the film cassette is contaminated. If the scratch starts just before the first frame and finishes 1 or 2 inches from the end then it is the camera, and not necessarily the back plate check all around the spool end too

-- Philip Woodcock (phil@pushbar.demon.co.uk), January 05, 2002.

I have mentioned this same advice in another thread above but though i would write it here as well. Take a roll of film but only use 3/4 of the roll, rewinding it before the last 1/4 has left the canister. Check the last 1/4 for scratches when the negs come back. Its true the last 1/4 will be clear making the scratches harder to see but if the lab is scratching the negs during processing you can still see the scratch lines if you check under a light. This will determine if the pressure plate is scratching the negs.

-- Joel Matherson (joel_2000@hotmail.com), January 07, 2002.

Thanks for all the advice. There was a bit of schmutz on the pressure plate when I finished my last roll. I cleaned it off, then ran a roll of drugstore film through, rewound, and pulled the film out of the cannister to check: no scratches! So it was apparently either the speck of crud that I cleaned off the pressure plate, the developers, and/or dirt on the cannister velvet. I had been in the habit of carrying cannisters sans containers around in my pockets - won't be doing that any more.

-- Ken Geter (kgeter@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002.