Excellent health link

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Freedom! self reliance : One Thread

I found this website; Len Horowitz with an incredible number of articles on predominately alternative health methods, and resources, such as links regarding vaccinations... articles

I thought I would share it with you all. I haven't begun to read all of them, but I was looking for a detox fast and ran across this. Enjoy!

-- Doreen (animalwaitress@yahoo.com), January 01, 2002

Answers

Thanks Doreen

-- Cindy (SE. IN) (atilrthehony@hotmail.com), January 01, 2002.

absolute tripe in my opinion....I found the article against vaccination most interesting as it happily quoted statistics from the 19th and 18th centuries to uphold the authors' attack on vaccinations. Sometimes I honestly wish we would stop all vaccinations if only to prove beyond a doubt that these alarmists are so very wrong........where on earth do they think polio and smallpox and tetanus went????? Where are the entire towns filled with measles epidemics??? where are the graves of thousands of folks dying from these illnesses since the mid 1900s??????????? I really get so upset with this rhetoric about the evils of vaccines and how we folks in medicine HIDE the evil truth from the public...the truth about side effects from vaccines as well as statistics quoting (ACCURATELY) the chances of death from vaccination are right on the consent form that folks sign when they receive them...I would advise ALL parents to go to their doctors office and get copies of all the vaccination consent forms.....read them..nobody is hiding anything from anybody..I think folks such as this "Dr." Horowitz are criminal..the Hippocratic Oath says "First, do no harm"....trying to convince parents not to immunize their children is harmful and downright dangerous. All of you young folks who have no first hand knowledge of death from polio, measles,mumps, whooping cough, tetanus, smallpox, etc.......use your common sense when reading this garbage..God help us if the crazies win over too many folks and the rates of immunizations drop in this country..it will be the unprotected children who will suffer because of their parents willingness to be misled.

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 02, 2002.

I believe we all have the right and responsiblilty to make informed and educated choices for our families. The way the medical profession and public health and public schools use intimidation is not conducive to informed educated choices.

My family, for example. Child # 1 had seizures for months after her first DPT. Child # 2 died 8 days after her first DPT. Child # 2, the docter came at us with the syringe yelling, "SHE'S GOT TO HAVE HER SHOT!" after I told him I was refusing immunization for this child. She eventually had shots for school, but had reactions that called for return office visits. Child # 3 had a tetanus after trying to fly and having a bad landing at 5 years old. This child has never been sick in her life.

Informed and educated choices would be the doctor or nurse telling you that a particular vaccine is manufactured from tissue of murdered babies and offering us the alternatives to the abomination, and alternatives to poison cocktails, that are available to the rest of the planet, but are not cost effective for our drug companies to produce.

Those of us who rely on good nutrition and healthy lifestyle, those of us who pay attention to details when our kids are sick will have a much better survival rate than those on the other end of the scale.

-- Laura (LadybugWrangler@hotmail.com), January 02, 2002.


As a lifelong victim of vaccinations, I can tell you it's no fun (and I'm not near as bad off as many are from this)and natural is always best. If we'd spend more money on researching what God has given us and less on worrying about which chemical will make which doctor richer, we'd be a whole lot better off. Natural for a natural bodmakes sense to me. I'm not saying that all synthetic medicines are bad/wrong, I am saying that in nature there's an answer for everything and without the harmful side-effects. A lot of medicines are 'copies' of natural things. valium/valerian, digitalis/foxglove.

"do no harm", what does chemo therapy and radiation do? What are all these side-effects you hear about on t.v. commercials. They all have a list, some quite long. Look what chemicals have done to me and a couple other ladies on these forums.

Please read the book Vaccinations by Michael Dye. You'll learn a lot. I know several people who won't give there kids these shots, in and not in public school. The kids are so much healthier.

-- Cindy (SE. IN) (atilrthehony@hotmail.com), January 03, 2002.


I wrote a scathing response and then deleted it when I came to my senses..there is absolutely nothing I can say to convince folks that putting medicine back a few hundred years is not a good thing for the children of this world....You know, a point could be made if for the history of mankind, herbs and concoctions and fresh air and sunshine and honest living and tree bark salves cured diseases never mind prevent them in the first place. Until the advent of vaccines, thousands of people died every single year from these now-preventable illnesses..history proves this again and again.....for those of you who do not approve of vaccines, I cannot for the life of me see how you can ignore historical fact, but you do....anyway, I will not comment further on the subject because it falls on deaf ears...for those of you who wish to believe that vacinations are the tools of the devil and harmful to your children, well, I guess I am just glad that you live in the USA and not somewhere in a third world country where unvaccinated children die every day from measles, chickenpox, and H-flu meningitis....where the babies born to women who have German measles are blind and or deaf....whatever....God gave us brains..I believe He expects us to use them to serve one another with whatever talents He has given us...for those of you who are still open to historical facts, do a websearch using "measles" or "viral meningitis" or "German measles"..read the medical articles..look at the statistics of deaths from vaccinations VS deaths from the actual disease..THEN read the stuff the anti-science folks put out..lastly, get those consent forms from your health care provider and READ the things...they quote accurately the real risks to your child from the vaccine......God bless.

-- lesley (martchas@bellsouth.net), January 03, 2002.


You can't convince us any more than we can convince you. Did you have vaccinations? Could that be the original cause of the problems you have written about in other posts?

You can do a websearch and find lots of testimonials on the tragedies of putting these viruses/foreign substances in your body.

There's some very good things in modern medicine, but it's not to be worshipped and that's exactly what modern medicine has become in many aspects, a god. And a god that controls lives especially in this country. (Kinda like advertising and insurance companies.)

Now they're even conditioning us to accept side-effects without questioning them, watch commercials for this drug propaganda.

It seems the elderly automatically expect to have to have their medication and this country's gonna make sure they have it-one way or another.

Why take penicillin which cost more(including a doctor's visit in most cases) when you can take echinecea, rose hips, garlic, in some cases free, and get the same results?

As of this date there's not one medication that I'm not allergic/have a reaction to, thanks God, He's given us what we need in the earth. And I admire those who have faith enough not to even need the herbs.

God/nature first; man/modern medicine second.

-- Cindy (SE. IN) (atilrthehony@hotmail.com), January 04, 2002.


Well, as for myself, I am not against all vaccinations at all times for any reason. However, I am against too many vaccinations, and experimental vaccinations, and undying devotion to half completed scientific studies.

I vaccinate my animals against certain things. I had one cat get sick afer his vaccination and he died. That caused me to look into a lot of the claims that folks who completely denounce vaccinations talk about, and there are a great number of salient points.

One thing that seriously causes me to question particularly MMR is the gross number of ADD, OCD, and high level autism cases since it's inception. And then the 7 deaths of children in Kosovo recently after he WHO implemented their vaccination program to save these kids. Yes, there are a serious number of nutritonal issues that may well account for some of these disorders (ADD and autism) as well, but it surely isn't all parenting or coincidence.

And then there is AIds. Hmmm. It's a coincidence I suppose that the prevalence of Aids came about after WHO ads were run in NY, SF, Chicago and LA for free Hep vaccines. There is plenty of evidence that suggests the contrary. And then a more recent study hat shows a definitive link between diabetes and the polio vaccine.

I am in -general- opposed to allopathic medicine. If I get wrecked in a car accident, I want xrays, and a surgeon. If I have a cold, I take care of it myself, if there is a NEED for antibiotics, fine, but they are overprescribed because folks beg for them and doctors like to dole them out. There are blessings and curses with modern medicine, and it doesn't take too much to see which is which. The majority of health problems in life may be addressed nutrionally,including Aids & diabetes, but that isn't what we have become conditioned to do. And I think that might behoove folks to recall that one of the objectives of the UN, of which the WHO is a part, is to reduce the population.

Laura, I am sorry about your loss.....if that happened to me, I am sure I wouldn't use any vaccines.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), January 04, 2002.


I just today read this post and have to put my 2cents worth in! I believe there is a place for modern allopathic medicine but for the most part, I very much agree with Doreen and Cindy. There are natural treatments out there which are much safer and if our government would spend 1/2 as much money researching these instead of on medicines that mostly profit the big drug companies we might come up with some better answers. It is a sin the money drug companies make on medications and it is a sin that we have come so dependent on them. I'm not saying they are never necessary but I honestly feel if we lead a healthy lifestyle and eat healthy we won't need many of them, not even the alternative methods. I feel the best thing is to take care of ourselves and prevent most of these diseases but the AMA, ADA, etc. doesn't profit from that. I agree with Lesley that vaccines have saved a lot of lives but I'm not sure they are the answer. A healthy body will ward off most illnesses. It's the same with organic gardening. Healthy plants are not as susceptible to disease. Chemo and radiation are two of the most horrid medical treatments and I'm not sure if I had cancer that I would undergo them. I believe they do more harm than good. In my opinion the ideal is to take care of the body God gave us and not have to worry about these illnesses but, being human, sometimes when we don't, medication may be necessary if there is no alternative treatment, which is rare. Right now I'm convinced that my husband has candida. Like I told him, there is no sense going to a M.D. for treatment, they would only laugh at you. We didn't eat right over Christmas and he especially ate a lot of sugar. He's had this problem before and we were able to take care of it ourselves with alternative treatments. Yeh, I know, Some will say the problem would have gone away without treatment anyway and may have not been the methods we used. I don't believe that. I personally will try prevention first, treat with alternative methods second and if all else fails, I might consider an M.D. Cindy is right about all the side effects of drugs. Very often the cure is worse than the problem it was prescribed to treat. By the way, Doreen, what did you decide to do to detox? Milk Thistle is supposed to be very good.

-- Barb in Ky. (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), January 07, 2002.

My children did have their basic vaccinations, not always at the exact times that were reccommended for various reasons, and not all of the extras they wanted them to have either. They all had chicken pox and did fine with it. They are all generally healthy, outdoorsy kids and eat a healthy diet. Sickness is rare and doesn't last long when it hits.

Now to another point, while people have always died of different diseases, many more have lived. What I wonder is why they lived? If we could find out why some are able to conquer disease on their own, we could go a long way towards solving this trouble. Was it their diet, their immune system, basic hygiene?

I do think that a child today has a better chance of either not contracting a disease or facing it better, simply because of our improved standards of hygiene, and better food choices and supplements that are available. I don't think we can compare some of the illnesses that occurred 200 years ago when people didn't realize where many illnesses came from, with today when we are more aware of the dangers of certain primitive practices.

-- Melissa (me@home.net), January 07, 2002.


Melissa, interesting questions. We do know a lot more about the importance of nutrition now than 200 years ago plus we can easily get nutritious food. To be honest though, I don't think the average American eats a healthy diet. I don't think even doctors fully understand the importance of good nutrition. Genes do play a part in our overall health but we can, I think, offset that with good nutrition and a healthy lifestyle. A healthy lifestyle includes good hygeine, exercise and staying away from toxins as much as possible. Personally, I'm not perfect at these things but I do try!! By the way, Doreen, thanks for the link. I found it very interesting.

-- Barb in Ky. (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), January 08, 2002.


Agreed Barb, about most Americans not eating a helthy diet, but when you look at some times in the past when all they ate all winter was maybe salt-cured pork or other meats, and maybe flour and some other staples if they could get them,and then some illness would hit, it is no wonder they couldn't fight it off! Their bodies had little reserve of nutrition and energy to fight off the illnesses.

Now I'm sure that some people had better diets than this, but I have read many "old-fashioned" diaries (true stories) and some of their diets were truly dismal! Most all children in America eat better than this, even if they do eat vitamin fortified cereals, school lunches, and just one or two servings of fruits and juices. Although this isn't optimum, it still beats a piece of salt-cured pork!!

I for one want my family to be as healthy as possible, but I am not totally fanatical about it. Reminds me of a story that says that if you eat no fat, no sugar, no sweets, no alcohol, no chocolate etc.. you could live to be 100, but why would you want to?!!! (please accept this as a joke!)

There is no permanent solution to perfect health, because due to our bodies imperfect condition we will all die eventually. It is only by God's grace that any of us have a hope of eternal life!

-- Melissa (me@home.net), January 08, 2002.


Amen, Melissa!

-- Barb in Ky. (bjconthefarm@yahoo.com), January 08, 2002.

I'm going to start the detox on Sunday. This week it's all whole grains and fruits and veggies..no cheese:(. I'm just going to do the lemon/ cayenne pepper water, and white grape juice for three days. I also have some Essiac tea that I will be using instead of my beloved coffee, and I have some flax seed that I will mix in with juice once a day in the Vita Mix. I'll probably be loopy for a bit!

Good points, Melissa! I don't eschew all modern medicine, but I think it MUST be taken in moderation as there is such a huge corporate/ monetary complex behind it that it is simply untrustworthy. Look how long it took them to admit that vitamin c helped with the common cold! sheesh.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), January 10, 2002.


Doreen, Do you have an easy way of going off the coffee without the caffiene withdrawal symptoms? I quit my diet pepsi two weeks ago, and didn't have a problem with that, so I have been trying to also ease off of coffee before I start the detox diet. Yesterday I didn't have any coffee, and had a migraine/sinus headache all day to the point of vomiting most of the night last night. Please tell me there's any easier way to do this!!!

-- Patti (trigger@montana.net), January 11, 2002.

Oh my gosh!!! I just now saw this. How terrible. Maybe you shouldn't go cold turkey like that. I get a headache alright, but if I drink a lot of water, like a full glass everytime I start to feel a bit of throbbing, it eases up. If it were bad enough to make me literally sick I would go ahead and have a little bit to ease the pain. Just don't go back to full force with the caffeine. And Good Job!!! on the diet soda! After you go about two motnhs without it if you have a taste you'll want to spit it right back out.

-- Doreen (bisquit@here.com), January 12, 2002.


ADD is way over-diagnosed, especially by public school teachers (who are NOT medical doctors, by the way) who just don't want to deal with children who simply used to be labeled "busy", as in "he's a busy child". I even saw one stupid book (one in the "Messie's Manual" series by Felton, I think) who seemed to think that if you have problems cleaning your house you probably have ADD (well, OF COURSE I'd rather stop and read a book than clean the house, lol). ADD has even turned into a convenient excuse to get labeled "learning disabled" so that kids can get extra time on SAT tests. Really.

I have seen stories seeming to link vaccines with ADD, but no real hard evidence. I agree with Lesley up to a point, lots of people died from diseases like polio, smallpox, measles, and the flu back in the early 1900s. Yes, there is a risk to all vaccines, but those diseases can kill too. Choice between ADD and death/paralysis/birth defects? Easy choice for me.

Not to mention the fact that this is a world of travelers--remember the Ebola scare in Canada not too long ago? Anyone can fly into this country ill and infect people with all sorts of diseases from places where they haven't been eradicated yet. Their children could be in your school. Not to scare anyone, but it can happen.

I do think however that vaccines should be thoroughly tested, and do not feel that the anthrax vaccine has been, so I understand people's refusal to take that one.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 13, 2002.


Of course there would be no need to vaccinate our children if all other parents in the school did the responsible thing and had their brats done!

-- john hill (john@cnd.co.nz), January 13, 2002.

John must be feeling crabby!:o)

-- (XP@allydocious.net), January 13, 2002.

I do not think you should be worried about catching a disease from a third world country if you are vaccinated.If these vaccines offer you so much protection what are you worried about? What you are saying does not make sense.If people like you want thimerasol,aluminum,formaldahyde,and other toxic waste injected into their bodies fine. I do not!

-- lalainhai molochomik (lohani@yahoo.com), January 23, 2003.

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