There has been a fraudulent score on Starforce posted by Novice@team2ch and it�s even been verified! The INP in question is exactly the same file as the illegal and consequently withdrawn VAZ one which used slowdown (shows up in F/S) to enable impossible bullet dodging and obvious use of autofire. This �newly� submitted INP is 15 months old, uses an ancient beta, has exactly the same amount of bytes and the same date/time stamp. I know this because I d/led & saved the VAZ INP when it was posted.

Picture the scene, you�ve just posted 10m on a game that no other player has reached 3m on, surely you would post a couple of 8m�s on the two clones for easy first places?

This sort of conduct merits an instant ban from MARP or at least suspension until a TG score has been posted on every game that Novice@team2ch has a current standing on. If this doesn�t happen, well myself and I think many other players will lose interest in the whole concept of MARP.

Virtualgaz

-- virtualgaz (virtualgaz@virtualgaz.co.uk), December 26, 2001

Answers

I certainly don't recall Vaz ever uploading a 10M point score for Star Force before. Hisa is the only one I know of to upload that sort of score, and seeing as he deleted it himself in the first place, it's perfectly okay for him to reinstate it.

-- Barry Rodewald (bsr@hnpl.net), December 26, 2001.

Okay, I have now checked with Zwaxy (who thankfully happened to be on #marp), and Hisa is definitely the only one to have uploaded a Star Force inp with that score. Yes, he has uploaded it twice, it was deleted at some point (it's likely that he deleted it himself, but I can't be entirely certain on that). Vaz (in either of his accounts) has never uploaded a recording for Star Force.

-- Barry Rodewald (bsr@hnpl.net), December 26, 2001.

Hisa's Marp Alias at one point in time was "Anti-Vaz" or something of that sort to reflect the disagreement the two were having. I think i remember analyzing the recording and although it looked questionable it was not enough proof on either side. Note the "F/S" (Frameskip i think you mean) you see when you playback is not necesarily the frameskip the person got when they record. Also note when a score on marp is "confirmed" orange it does not mean it will not be disqualified later if the recording has proof of cheating in it. "confirmed" states only mean the recording playsback to the advertised score, not that the recording is cheat free.

-- Chad (churritz@crash.cts.com), December 26, 2001.

I'm the one who confirmed the score ... That's what happened : 1�) Hisa made several (very) good scores between 3M and 6M ; his aim was to beat the 10M ; if I remember correctly, he was giving in a thread evolution of his scores every day 2�) he finally managed to do 10M ; after that, he changed his name several times from Hisa to ZAV (not Vaz) 3�) he erased all his scores 5 or 6 monthes ago saying he was living marp 4�) he recently re-uploaded all his 1st places including starforc ; after verifying it with the autofire detection program, I confirmed it as there was no slowdown detected

-- phil (plamat@club-internet.fr), December 26, 2001.

that was exactly same inp which I have send.
I have removed when I stop to use name "ZAV".
do I have to make another one if changing login name??
Hisa is rank-xx is ZAV is c33master is novice@team2ch.

-- Novice@Team2ch (weavuspert@yahoo.co.jp), December 26, 2001.

Picture the scene, you�fve just posted 10m on a game that no other player has reached 3m on, surely you would post a couple of 8m�fs on the two clones for easy first places?
all right it is a piece of cake for me.
sorry all starforce current top players.
do not blame me.

-- Novice@Team2ch (weavuspert@yahoo.co.jp), December 26, 2001.

koppu no naka no otamajyakusi ga hakkutu(!) saretanoha kotira desuka?

gakkai ni houkoku sinakutya!

-- kokodesuka? (sage@www.2ch.net), December 26, 2001.

Wow, Virtualgaz... who died and made you MARP boss?

-BBH

-- TeamMilky (lordbbh@aol.com), December 27, 2001.

WOW BBH, I'm so sorry - I must have misread this.... " Everyone has a say at MARP, whether you're 1st on the leaderboard or 101st, and whether you've been at MARP for four years or for forty seconds".

-- virtualgaz (virtualgaz@virtualgaz.co.uk), December 27, 2001.

Virtuagaz: I think that BBH was thinking of this line that you wrote:"This sort of conduct merits an instant ban from MARP or at least suspension until a TG score has been posted on every game that Novice@team2ch has a current standing on. If this doesn�t happen, well myself and I think many other players will lose interest in the whole concept of MARP. "

It really sounds like you are the guy that sets the rules :) Anyway peace out.

Regards

QRS

-- QRS (qrs@telia.com), December 27, 2001.

Well, then why did you post this...

"This sort of conduct merits an instant ban from MARP or at least suspension until a TG score has been posted on every game that Novice@team2ch has a current standing on."

Why are you asking for him to be banned? Because you THINK he used autofire/slowdown? I don't see your proof of that. And since when have people been banned for one recording containing autofire? I think someone's just a little pissy over losing a 1st place here.

By the way, I had no idea that m37b7 was an "ANCIENT" beta of MAME... damn I feel old now

-BBH

-- TeamMilky (lordbbh@aol.com), December 27, 2001.

�� oi oi , sannzann ityamonn tuketoite sono aiteni taisiteha syazai-nasi kayo "GORUXA"!!

-- ITTE-YOSHI! (o8333@yahoo.co.jp), December 27, 2001.

Hey, it looks like that, willing or not, I always am in trouble here at MARP :)

Anyway, as someone has already stated in a post above, I haven't posted any recording of Star Force here; I did, but on the Hall of MAME, and I didn't put it here too just because it was so poor that it wasn't even worth uploading... I made a recording of Final Star Force, though, and that was a good one ;)

Keep fighting, folks, but without me... unluckily I haven't time anymore for recording high scores, since all of my spare time is taken by MamEnd... it was fun being here, see ya sometime in the future!

Happy new year!

-- Vaz (mrvaz@inwind.it), December 27, 2001.

Virtualgaz, you've made some strong statements that I haven't seen substantiated to my satisfaction yet. Contrary to your statements, several inp's were submitted leading up to that 10 Million recording over the space of a couple of months, the better recording replacing the previous in each case.

I can see that speed of bullet shooting is very fast and the dodging of bullets is excellent - exactly what you would expect from a great exponent of the game. Why do you believe that those speeds are not humanly possible - what is your proof? I'm not saying you are wrong but you should justify your claims.

Whatever the case you have raised enough doubt that Hisa-Chan feels it necessary to create fresh recordings to 'clear his name' so to speak. I personally don't see why he should feel the need to defend himself against unsubstantiated rumour.

I look forward to seeing Hisa-Chan's new recordings, he's shooting for a 20 Million goal this time on all versions of starforc - a very big ask indeed.

-- Tim Morrow (tmorrow@bigpond.net.au), December 27, 2001.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003pV5

-- anonymous (anonymous@anonymous.info), December 27, 2001.

I know many are down on Hisa for the elitist comments, but i have to commend anyone who is challenged and acts the way Hisa does by automatically attempting to rerecord and better their "challenged" score: that's what game competition is all about. If anyone feels their name has been tarnised to be cleaned or feels like their rights have been violated in having scores challenged, they're in the wrong place.

Yeah it would suck if you honestly got a really high score that you knew it would be really difficult to repeat, and someone challenged you that you really didn't make it. But hey, why wouldn't anyone want to better their score even if it was just to satisfy a tattle tale. Of course the security of mame isn't quite up to par, so i would hope challenges are honored with tg mame inps.

-- Chad (churritz@crash.cts.com), December 27, 2001.

This sort of false accusation merits an instant apology to MARP in general and Hisa-Chan in particular.

Ben Jos.

-- Ben Jos Walbeehm (walbeehm@walbeehm.com), December 28, 2001.

I would like to require the elimination of "this nonsense thread.
I do not want any apology.
virtualgaz, why not try to 20million with me?

-- (weavuspert@yhaoo.co.jp), December 29, 2001.

"This sort of false accusation merits an instant apology to MARP in general and Hisa-Chan in particular."

yse

-- [AgN]nebula.x - RA3, UT, CS (pimpdavid15@yahoo.com), December 29, 2001.

Oh dear, look at all this lot. The facts here are plain and simple, the recording I refer to has firepower not possible from a human hand � especially over a 10hour session and the bullet dodging is aided by slowdown or at least pausing. I know Starforce better than most. I�ve been playing since the day it was released and 4 or 5m is tops. My credentials? Have a flick through USNVT journals (which became Twin Galaxies).

This ZAV / hisu / Novice guy sounds real stable � changing names for spite, deleting and re-submitting scores under various names, clogging up the message board with drivel. Yeah he�d be one to trust alright. 20million on each to come? Great, whatever, lots of stilted firing to avert Phil�s autofire software as well. I�ll take it all back when his scores are posted on a TG beta.

As for the strange attitude of BBH (who sounds as if he was still in nappies during the video game era) suggesting I�m sore about losing a �first� place (I assume that�s what �pissy� would mean) � HA, GET REAL SONNY this is kids stuff, the MARP world consists of a few of the web�s mandatory obsessives and a mere handful of part time PC emu players, of which probably only 2% actually remember the original games, tapping away on dodgy keyboards in a nostalgic daze. We 70�s video game exponents are here only as an annoyance to obsessive and rude kids like you - popping up occasionally to bring you back down to earth having experienced the real thing. You should�ve been there for the real adulation � it was amazing. Have you ever played Defender? Or any of the hard older/games? � I see from your tally, not really. I also see you�re rather quick to jump in on a subject with a pointless or snide remark � or is it in this case you�re worried about scrutiny on some of your scores? Take my advice, get out more and brush up on your social skills.

Well, until there is a level playing field and that Starforc INP is dq�d or whatever, I ain�t posting no more which again further dilutes MARP�s value. The �fun� roots of MARP have gone. Carry on squabbling. Goodbye until then.

-- virtualgaz (virtualgaz@virtualgaz.co.uk), December 30, 2001.

ohhh, this is gonna be fun.

"As for the strange attitude of BBH (who sounds as if he was still in nappies during the video game era) suggesting I�m sore about losing a �first� place (I assume that�s what �pissy� would mean)"

still in nappies during the video game era? You mean video games are officially dead? That's news to me. Anyway, so why were you so hostile towards Hisa? Suggesting he be *BANNED* from MARP for one recording that you THINK contains autofire? I asked before, where is your proof that he is cheating? Funny that you ignored this question so you could get in more insults towards me.

"HA, GET REAL SONNY this is kids stuff, the MARP world consists of a few of the web�s mandatory obsessives and a mere handful of part time PC emu players, of which probably only 2% actually remember the original games, tapping away on dodgy keyboards in a nostalgic daze. We 70�s video game exponents are here only as an annoyance to obsessive and rude kids like you - popping up occasionally to bring you back down to earth having experienced the real thing."

Oh, now you're really showing your maturity. Ripping on someone just because they happen to be younger. You think only 2% of the players on MARP remember the original games? That's pretty funny.

"You should�ve been there for the real adulation � it was amazing. Have you ever played Defender? Or any of the hard older/games? � I see from your tally, not really."

WOW, SO NOW YOU KNOW EVERY GAME I'VE EVER PLAYED IN MY LIFE! Newsflash - I've played a lot more than I've submitted for on MARP. Have I played Defender? Yes. Have I played these "hard older/games"? Some of them, yes. Is it my fault I was born too late to properly enjoy these games? Does it make me less of a human being that I never got to experience the boredom of marathoning Defender?

"I also see you�re rather quick to jump in on a subject with a pointless or snide remark � or is it in this case you�re worried about scrutiny on some of your scores?"

My god, you make absolutely no sense whatsoever. You're saying I make "pointless or snide remarks" because I'm worried about the scrutiny of some of my scores? What the hell? I'm not worried about shit, I've got nothing to prove. But I would gladly get any of my scores on the real machines just to shut a jackass like you up.

"Take my advice, get out more and brush up on your social skills."

This coming from a guy who thinks he's superior simply because he's older. Well here's one thing I've even managed to learn in my youth - assholes are assholes, no matter how old they are. You've proven that nicely.

By the way, your Star Force "credentials" mean jack and shit to me, and Jack just left town. If you're leaving MARP, I don't think too many people will end up missing your attitude.

-BBH

-- BBH (lordbbh@aol.com), December 30, 2001.

sigh...
If you really want visit Tokyo,Japan. And tell me when you will come.I can play it in front of you.(but it is not cheap.)
impossible for you is not always impossible for others.
TG record is not always world record.
I can shot 12-15 times per seconds.
the most important factor of this game is not rapid shot and dodging.
But PLANNING."What is the next to do".

and world record of this game is 99,999,900.
not 10M but 100M. about 16hours.

-- Novice@Team2ch (weavuspert@yahoo.co.jp), December 30, 2001.

Why does it always pop up another "Richy Cream" when the (hopefully) last one is leaving??

I though I had already seen bad attitude on MARP, but this is too much.. Only one thing to ask.. How old are you VirtuaGaz?

I know of a 13 years old guy here at Marp that is ALOT more mature than you.

Cheers.

QRS

-- QRS (qrs@telia.com), December 30, 2001.

"of which probably only 2% actually remember the original games"??? TLS,Tipical Loser Statement.Just to say that I've played the original Asteroids in my arcade(when i had an arcade:() when I was child,and now I'm "only" 19.And Star Force too...
I know AFAIK more games that are currently in MAME or not too,and I'm not the exception.Still can't believe that you are an idiot.

You are offending everyone here,starting from Hisa and his abilities in Star Force.Sorry,but there isn't any autofire there.The fire-rate is too irregular to be an autofire product,according to a rapid look to the file.And,frankly,your abilities at that game simply sucks.I know several people that have got more than just one million...

Note for Hisa:if you want to play Star Force without the possibility of pausing,and you can't run m35tg3,I can give you a tiny MAME .56 version,that includes only Star Force ,with a special trick that makes only that version to playback.Just to make idiots shut up...


Well,good 2002 to everybody!!!

-- Kale (angelo.salese@tin.it), December 31, 2001.

I don't think Hisa is using keyboard for MAME, correct? I know for some games the computer keyboard is not as responsive has arcade style buttons.

Anyway I think Hisa has some video tapes of the original arcade machines, although I have not seen them. I'm glad to see Japanese INPs at MARP. I've taped myself on original arcade also.

As everyone is in different parts of the world, verifying scores in person is not very easy unless you are a millionaire. We have a classic high score championship each year at Funspot in New Hampshire in the United States, which is mainly for games up to 1986.

Anyways, Happy New Year to everybody :)

As for BBH (Matt) he is a very good player, and I am an "old" player who played in the late 70's and early 80's. Games in the late 70's were not all that great, to be honest. Mostly in that time is was B&W arcade games and pinball. How many games are in MAME now, over 2,000? No one is good at every game in every era. And Matt played games with John Rhodes (JoustGod) in Las Vegas right? There is your witness :)

But although I believe Hisa is an excellent player, you have to understand in North America a lot of magazines published scores which are impossible, like 9 million on Dig Dug. Ask Tech-D, that score is impossible. They were many other examples. That is probably why not all scores are believed. But I think Steve Krogman watched some of Hisa's tapes, so there is some verification there.

-- Mark Longridge (zero1@look.ca), December 31, 2001.

yeah, JoustGod witnessed me get a "whopping" 23 million or so on Shock Troopers a couple years ago... HAHAHA. Those were the days. Although in all honesty, I was sorta rushing through the game, not doing all the stalling I usually do

anyway, I'll be in Vegas again about a month from now :D

-BBH

-- BBH (lordbbh@aol.com), December 31, 2001.