Which LEICA lenses are "legends". Which lenses build 25-30 years ago are exceptionnal for their optical and mechanical qualities ? These lenses that were very good many years ago and will be as good in many years from now. All technical and historical considerations are welcome... NB: all older and actual lenses. Jean-Pierre Auger, Montréal, Canada.

-- Jean-Pierre Auger (paphoto@videotron.ca), December 26, 2001

Answers

All Leica lenses are legendary. The list of ones whose performance is more than legend, however, varies according to which source you read.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), December 26, 2001.

The simple fact is that no lens made 25 years ago is likely to be as good as it's equivalent built today. Even with higer end lenses such as Leica's, there has just been too many advances in aspherical elements, lens coatings, etc. to evenly compare them. There are plenty of wonderful older lenses, I happily use a 50/2 summitar. But 99.9% of all older lenses have been eclipsed by their newer counterparts in any way that is measureable.

Now, talk in terms that can't be easily measured (lenses that made an impact on photography by being groundbreaking for their time or lenses that have captured a particular photographers love) and you might have something. I would personally put lenses like: the first version 35/1.4 summilux, 50/1 noctilux, 50/2 summar, 50/2 Dual range summicron, 21/3.4 Super Angulon, the list could go on and on.

-- Josh Root (rootj@att.net), December 26, 2001.

Josh,

Sorry, I have to negate. One simple good example of a lens which was "better" than that produced today is the most used (well, maybe) M-lens of all time: the 50 'cron. The one today is good, it is okay. But... the penultinmate 50 'cron -- especially the latest there -- is "better" than today's, for two reasons: (a) that older one has a focusing ring tab (like all 35s and those wide angles thereunder), and (b) that older one has a detachable, firmly mountable hood instead of the pull-'im-out shove-'im-in type. I too favourize the older type, which unfortunately isn't available anymore.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), December 26, 2001.

My point exactly. I haven't stopped jumping for joy since the day the current 50 came out and I instantly sold my tabbed/separate-hood version.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), December 26, 2001.

Also my point exactly. Issues like that are not really measurable. Some are going to love tabs (I do) some don't ever use them. Some love built in hoods, some are going to hate them.

-- Josh Root (rootj@att.net), December 26, 2001.

There is no modern equivalent for the 40-year-old Dual-Range Summicron. And the build quality of the new lenses is not up to the standard set by those old chrome lenses.

-- Mike Dixon (mike@mikedixonphotography.com), December 26, 2001.

Jean,

I have to agree with the others of their assessment of the previous generation 50 cron. Got one myself and every once in awhile I take it and a body for a stroll to do some carefree photography. However, I don't know that there are any "legendary" lenses in the Leica stable. To my knowledge all of Leica's current offerings are state of the art in terms of correction of abberations. The older lenses had "signature" which is nice as well. But remember, its the photographer that takes the picture... not the lens so its of limited use to debate the pros and cons of various generations of lenses.

My philosophy:

If you use it the lens is good.

If you use it WELL the lens is great.

If you don't use it the lens is a paper weight. (As per my feelings about my recently departed 24 Elmarit).

-- John Chan (ouroboros_2001@yahoo.com), December 26, 2001.

I have used most lenses from the beginning of the M system, but I would have to assume that most of my early glass was not as pristine as it could have been. Mechanically, the very early stuff was extremely over built. Just look at the workmanship in the chrome 90mm Summicron... two sectional telescoping hood, two fitting tripod mount on the lens (a tripod mount on a 90mm lens!), and an action that was just fun to play with. On the other hand, it was a monster that to me ruined the fine profile of the M cameras, (this lens on my M3 was a bigger and heavier package than my 105mm Nikkor on my FM2).

Optically, if you can locate a very good example of a 35mm f/2.8 Summaron, it should be capable of great images in the middle apertures. I lived in Spain for a long time with only this lens, and some of those slides are terrific even when compared to images made with "new and improved" glass. I also have a soft spot for the 4th version of the 35mm Summicron, both for the images it gives as well as for me the way it embodies what I always thought an M camera should be... tiny. I also vote for the 50mm Summicron before they modified it, (I like tabs), but the version right before (1969) that lens is very close optically, and is quite slim looking (probably an optical illusion because of no tab and a longer focusing collar). I had all of the chrome 50mm Summicrons, including the collapsible one, but I'll assume there was a problem with the glass, because until I got that 1969 Black Summicron, I never felt anything special was happening. Again, with old glass sample variation is going to be the biggest factor in your results. Mechanically, those chrome Summicrons were just so precise and well engineered... it was a different time for sure.

-- Al Smith (smith58@msn.com), December 26, 2001.

I had a chance to compare the 35mm f1.4 aspherical (old version) with today's 35mm f1.4 asph. Both are exceptionaly good, but I like the old version more in terms of color saturation and shadow details.

-- chi cheung (chic@intergate.bc.ca), December 26, 2001.

Well, my favorite "legendary" Leica lens is the BM 21/3.4 Super- Angulon lens (actually made by Schneider for Leitz). I have a chrome lens from the mid-1960s that I bought along with hood, caps, and a chrome metal Leitz 21mm finder from a Leica dealer for $ 500 (this was a while back!). The image quality of this lens never ceases to amaze me, and is still one of the best WAs, even by todays standards.

When I read Erwin's review noting how much better the newer 21/2.8- ASPH M lens was, I found it hard to believe, give the quality of color slides produced by my 21/3.4 SA. I am convinced there was a variability in the quality of the individual Leitz lenses, since others have commented on the tendency of the 21/3.4 SA to flare. I have never noticed this; and the image quality just never ceases to amaze me. My example may be a particularly good individual lens. But I think the 21/3.4 SA BM lens qualifies as "legendary".

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), December 26, 2001.

Excellent question. Leica lenses have always been so good that the only Legendary ones are the few dogs. Many of them are Hektors, (named appropiately after the designer's pets). Hektor 28mm, 50mm, and 125mm. 21mm/f:4 Super Angulon, 50mm Xenon, and 90mm Thambar. That's about it.

-- (bmitch@home.com), December 26, 2001.

I am surprised nobody mentioned 50mm Elmar. Maybe it is not "legendary" for its optical qualities, but IMHO it is as "classic" Leica lens as it gets. It's been around almost as long as the Leica itself and evolutionized to current 50/2.8 Elmar-M. I have this lens and I like it for light travel and daytime shooting. Nice tonality, creamy bokeh. Lovely, lovely lens!..

-- Alexander Grekhov (grekhov@wgukraine.com), December 26, 2001.

Eliot,

The 21/3.4 only has problems with flare when it is wide open. At f/4 it is fine. I had a late black one and was very impressed but the f/4 limitation eventually pushed me to trade it in on a 21/2.8A. I am very happy now as f/2.8 on the new lens delivers excellent quality.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@powersurfr.com), December 26, 2001.

Just to add a bit , I really love some of the new asph glass , but a lens is only as sharp as it is after the first time you drop it . The current crop of leica glass is better then all the other junk that is out there . The older Leica lens were little mechanical jewels by anyones standards that perform up to tolorance 20, 30 , ........ years later . I was amassed to find out that the 35mm I had been shooting with untill recently was older then I am , and the 50mm older then my parents .

-- Charles C. Stirk Jr. (ccstirkjr@yahoo.com), December 27, 2001.

There is some theory about a black paint work that can be done to the 21/3.4 to fix it´s flare wide open, have you head any thing about it?

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), December 27, 2001.