Hi, In my quest for a 35mm Summicron pre-asph I've been seeing some German and Canadian. It sure is nice to see Made In Germany on my lenses but is there really a difference? I'm lookin at a Canadian lens right now and I think the German one actually is a little different mechanically. Or were all pre ash 35mm 'crons Canadian and I'm confused? Thanks as always, Warren Allen

-- Warren Allen (whatrix@home.com), December 21, 2001

Answers

Ahhh! an oldie but a goodie! Others will elaborate but no, it really shouldn't make any difference. Some pre ash 35's were Canadian some were German - all are excellent. There were four versions with various mechanical and optical changes through the years, I use a third version (Canadian) which is beautifully made though not as good wide open as the fourth version.

Not sure why it's nicer to see "Made in Germany" rather than "Made in Canada" - bit unfair to Canadians, no?

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), December 21, 2001.

For sure the 4th version is best wide open, but older lenses are better build, not mean newers are not, but there is not comparison, I still belong to the stone age.

-- r watson (al1231234@hotmail.com), December 21, 2001.

Your right that doesn't sound so good to the Canadians. Sorry. I'm mostly a little confused as to the mechanics. I've been looking at all kinds of 35mm from Summarons to Summicrons and thought I had settled on a particular vintage and model . Now that I have one in hand it doesn't feel like the one that made my decision but was over priced. As far as I know ALL the glass comes from Germany, and I'm sure any Leica trained tech can assemle them regardless of nationality. But like I said the one I saw which was German seemed to be a little differently constructed. No matter. I'm gonna go run a few rolls of Tri-X through this sucker today and stop anylising makes and models. I hope I can settle on this one.

Thanks,Warren

-- Warren Allen (whatrix@home.com), December 21, 2001.

Warren, what's the serial number?

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), December 21, 2001.

> The lens in question is Ser# 3182332. Is there a good on-line reference for serial # & vintages models etc...? -- Warren Allen Whatrix designs http://www.whatrix.com whatrix@home.com

-- Warren Allen (whatrix@home.com), December 21, 2001.

That would make it a 1984 model and the last and optically best of the pre ash Summicrons. I owned one but unfourtunatly mine was faulty and I traded for the third genaration model. I do miss the tiny size and dinky (if plastic) lens hood. If I find another good one I will probably try and swop back! Shoot some film and see what you think. Have a look at this site http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), December 21, 2001.

Sorry, typo - that should be 1982!!!

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), December 21, 2001.

The fourth version 35 Summicron-M had an added lens element over the 2nd and 3rd versions. This was done to reduce curvature.

I had the first version for decades and when I traded it for the fourth version it was as gorgeous as the day I bought it. It was made in Canada. I also have a 90 Summicron-R made in Canada.

Although I am prejudiced about where things are made (cars for example), I have absolutely no problem with Canadian-made Leitz/Leica gear. In fact, I'd prefer Canadian to Solms.

-- Bud (budcook@attglobal.net), December 21, 2001.

This is one for the "FAQ" section if we had one.

-- Andrew Schank (aschank@flash.net), December 21, 2001.

Warren: there were FOUR versions of the 35 f/2 before the ASPH - all fairly different in optics and lens barrel mechanics (although close in size and fairly close in performance). There was one with a little flag on the aperture ring (late 60s-early 70s), and ones before and after, without the flag, and then finally the 4th version, from 1980 (+/- 2 years), which lasted until 1997 or so. I think only a few of the very first version, and a few of the very last version, were made in Germany - everything in between of all designs was Canadian-made. There is very little correlation between the build quality and the build location.

Probably 85% of the Leica-M lenses in existence in 1990 were Canadian. The factory opened about 1950 and was making lenses while the screw- mount bodies were still in existence. Most (All?) of the fast photojournalistic lenses (75 1.4, 50 Noctilux, 90 'crons, most of the post-1965 50 crons, 35 1.4's, 21 f/2.8s, etc.etc.) were not only made in Canada for most of their existence, but designed there as well.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denve.infi.net), December 21, 2001.

Warren, I have the version I 35 Summicron, Canadian.. I'm sure it's not as sharp wide open as the later prodeuction, but, stopped down just a little, it's still one of my best lenses. And have I got a lot of lenses . . .

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), December 21, 2001.

Warren- I had either the 3rd or 4th per-Asph version of the 35 cron, made in Canada. It was razor sharp, very small and super slick. In the case of this lens, the difference between "Leitz-Wetzlar" and "Leitz-Canada" is probably only in the nameplate, sort of like the difference between a Chevrolet and a GMC pickup truck. For some reason, the GMCs sell for a bit more, but they are basically the exact same truck (or were when I last checked into buying a pickup truck). The Canadian cron has to be the best dollar value. As far as I know, Germans came over to Canada to staff the operation.

-- Frank Horn (owlhoot45@hotmail.com), December 22, 2001.

Warren

here are a few examples of M lenses of the same model and optical formula made in both Germany (Wetzlar) and Canada. These include the first and second versions of the 35/2.0 Summicron, the first version of the 28/2.8 Elmarit, and the first version of the 90/2.0 Summicron (with detachable lenshood). Then there are examples of lenses made in Canada and then switched to Germany when the factory moved to Solms. The latter include the fourth version of 35/2.0, the 11819 50/2.0 Summicron, the 50/1.0 Noctilux, the 75/1.4 Summilux, the 90/2.0 Summicron, and the 90/2.8 Tele-Elmarit.

Generally speaking, the quality of the same model lens of then same optical formula are identical, whether they were made in Canada or Germany. The optical quality of later lenses, of course, is usually better than that of earlier lenses. I have a lot of respect for the older Canadian designed and manufactured Leica/Leitz lenses, such as the 75/1.4 Summilux, 50/1.0 Noctilux, and 90/2.8 Tele-Elmarit (4- element version).

As far as the mechanics, there are several lenses initially made in Canada and then transferred to Germany, in which the later German model has a built-in lenshood (eg., 11819 50/2.0 Summicron, 50/1.0 Noctilux). I actually prefer the earlier Canadian version with the detachable lenshood. The optical formulas are the same. In addition, the engraving is better and more precise on the older Canadian versions.

But practically speaking, there is really no difference in Canadian vs German lenses of the same type. Leica is Leica, wherever their lenses were made.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), December 22, 2001.

Early Leitz lenses were not match of Zeiss /Nikon.

Until the great Leitz designer Walter Mandler at Leitz Canada at Midland Ontario pioneered computer aided lense design and gave the world the marvelous Summicron, Summilux and telyt, and put Leitz at the forefront of lens design technology.

In many high technology area, Canada was/is at leading edge Leitz Canada of the past, CANDU reactor with double triple computer redundant safty control, The Special Purpose Dexterius Manipulator of the International Space Station; Nothern Telecom in telephone switching and fibre optic technolgy, to mention a few.

Made in Canada means the highest technolgy

-- martin tai (martiin.tai@capcanada.com), December 22, 2001.

After WWII, Germany splitted into two, big part of Zeiss factory was shipped stock and barel to Ukraine by Stalin, and Nikon, Canon dominates the camera market.

There was constant threat of war between the divided Gemany, hard to imaging any research development work could continue under dark clouds.

The tranquil town at the shore of beautiful Georgian Lake became a sanctury for Leitz designers, they enjoyed the pure water and clear sky of the lakes and sky and vibrant colors at Autumn.. Like the group of Seven painters who captured the beautiful landscape in their paintings, Leitz Canada designers captured the spirit of Canadian landscape in their brilliant Leitz lenses...

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), December 22, 2001.

Wild Leitz Canada got constant support from Canadian government. I remember Wild Leitz name shown up many times on Candian National Research Council Bulletin, which listed names of company awarded NRC grants.

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), December 22, 2001.

Like a Rolex watch, just panic if it says "Made in China".

The manufacture of lenses in Canada couldnt really have been to save money, the cheapest 40mm F2 Summicron is made in Germany and although a terrific lens if the Canadian plant could make lenses cheaper than Germany then the 40mm CL lens would surely have been made there as the aim of the CL was an introductory level camera. Both factories are good.

-- Joel Matherson (joel_2000@hotmail.com), December 22, 2001.

China's entry into WTO really set many industrial country in great panic. Some American bicycle factories have already shutdown their USA plants and move stock and barrel to China.

Many Nikon, Minolta cameras and lenses are already "Made in China"

By 2020, the market in China will surpass USA

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), December 22, 2001.

Germany actually lacks behind in many high tech areas. I don't know there is any German space rocket program, capable of sending commercial satelite to the sky.

Many USA communication satelites were send to space on China's Long March rockets, which also lauch many spy satelites with very sharp lenses..

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), December 22, 2001.

The most visited site in Beijing, besides the Forbidden City and the Great Wall, is a three block street--- Siu Shui Street. All kinds of fake Rolex watches, Cartier, Fendi handbags-- foreign tourist buy tones of these goods, panic buying indeed.

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), December 22, 2001.