Need to talk to someone who cares about rights(Walker interview)

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Anyone appalled by the Walker interview? Once again I don't support his choices, but to have him talking to a newsman after he'd been left in a truck overnight in freezing weather and pretty much told to cooperate if he wanted better treatment? Does anyone else think this is apalling..... or just S.O.P.? Nick and I kinda had a argument over it. He takes the it's a war position. I don't care if it is, the man still has rights and one is to be treated humanely and have representation,and the right to avoid self incriminization. But once again, the press pack chasing after a juicy story (with gov. complicity) gets in the way of treating someone decently.

I don't think he sould be tried by the press.Did you watch the interview? I really cannot take the kinds of things that go on in our society.There is no honor left. This is just another example of what stinks. I'm just really naive, ain't I?

-- Anonymous, December 20, 2001

Answers

I didn't see it. What network had it on (so I can guess whether they'll show it again)?

'Honor' has been gone a long time -- though I might argue it never really existed, except on a personal individual level.

-- Anonymous, December 20, 2001


I didn't see it so I can't comment on it. The only question I'd add here is: how can we be at war when Congress didn't declare it? Whatever happened to the rule of law?

BTW, I don't mean to overrun your thread, Sharon but I'm gonna post a really great article I came across a couple of days ago that asks a LOT of hard questions concerning this "war" we're engaged in. It's long but well worth the read, IMO:

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Libertarian Splits in the War on Terrorism
by Jacob G. Hornberger

[Removed article and provided a link instead. Because of the size of the article I felt that it overwhelmed Sharon's post.]

-Jim

-- Anonymous, December 20, 2001


As a Libertarian, I vehemently oppose this "war" or whatever the media insists on calling it in Afghanistan. The whole thing should be handled as a criminal case, much like the Oklahoma bombing case, not as this "war on terrorism" crapola that is so handy at removing our civil rights and setting us back to pre Martin Luther King era liberties.

We should be providing humanitarian aid to the oppressed people of Afghanistan, and if military measures were needed, a NATO or UN backed military encounter should have ensued.

What we are doing over there is akin to being a vigilante, a bully among nations, and are acting no better than Osama Bin Laden himself.

Walker deserves the same rights as the enemy soldiers in all the known wars, the Geneva Convention guarantees these rights to Prisoners of War. I do think that when he dedicated his life to the idea of jihad, he relinquished his rights to American citizenship in doing so, and as such still is entitled to his rights under the Geneva Convention as an enemy soldier, declared "war" or no "war".

-- Anonymous, December 20, 2001


I dunno. I'm of several opinions about the whole thing and the various opinions don't always fit together very well.

One thing Annie said brings this to mind tho. She understandably sez we should treat this as a criminal case. I don't necessarily disagree with that in principal but I remember hearing that Al Queda and Bin Ladin has 15,000 men under arms. How do you deal with that in a "merely" criminal context?

-- Anonymous, December 21, 2001


That's an easy one John, we treat it the same way that we dealt with the Oklahoma bombing case, go after the actual participants in the matter, if we would have insisted on tracking down all the White Surpremists, Skin Heads, and vigilante militia types that are also indirectly responsible for the Oklahoma bombing, we would still be "spinning our wheels" getting nowhere.

You got to look at it from a prosecuting attorneys point of view, finding chargable guilt and the person who actually did it or funded it, not all the lackeys that are the yes men in the group. Much like in dealing with the Mafia, find the ones who ordered and administered the hit.

-- Anonymous, December 21, 2001



I dunno Annie. Its sounds "easy" and right the way you describe but;

#1---the Taliban refused to turn Bin Ladin over to American authorities except on their terms.

#2---the el Queda, being 15000 strong if the report is to be believed practically requires a warlike effort because they're not gonna merely surrender bin Ladin and trust the American judicial to do justice to their cause.

So what do you do? The "enemy" refuses to give himself up. He has his own standing army willing to fight to the death to protect their leader and is further supported by the "host" governments military who will fight to protect the accused.

We're not talking about shootout at the OK corral here. These are folks with tanks, rocket launchers, granades, land mines, anti air craft artillery etc.

-- Anonymous, December 21, 2001


yes, this is all very hard to sort out. Now, our govt is saying that OBL has probably split. Surprise surprise.

Do y'all know who built him those little, multi billion dollar "caves" he was allegedly hiding in? Yep; it was our rich uncle.

Who can tell me where OBLgot all these tanks, missiles, rocket launchers, etc?

What is wrong with this whole picture?

AND WHY WON'T THE FBI RELEASE THE FLT 93 COCKPIT VOICE RECORDER? WHAT ARE THEY HIDING?

-- Anonymous, December 21, 2001


I see your point, John, so how "bad" would it be if we don't make an even bigger hero out of OBL and we just deal with the criminals that we do/can catch?

It's sort of like the Vietnam "conflict", are there any clear winners in this picture that we are engaged in currently in Afghanistan?

My opinion is that we are cutting off our nose to spite our face, that we would gain more in the eyes of the rest of the world, which contrary to Shrub's opinion, does matter, by doing nothing but humanitarian effort in Afghanistan.

We will never defeat the militant Muslims and Al-Quaeda forces, we can only hope to change enough of the world's opinion of their true intentions to provide less and less support for their actions. And to do this we will have to radically change our foreign policy, which is deplorable and rascist in my opinion. We have got to learn to lead by setting an example for others to follow.

-- Anonymous, December 21, 2001


Annie: You say

"My opinion is that we are cutting off our nose to spite our face, that we would gain more in the eyes of the rest of the world, which contrary to Shrub's opinion, does matter, by doing nothing but humanitarian effort in Afghanistan."

Generally I agree with the idea of humanitarian effort. However besides having serious reservations about the sincerity and forthrightness of our own government I have even greater reservations about the sincerity of any of the muslim countries, especially those who are strongly influenced by the muslim "right".

An all out sincere and genuine effort to help the Afghani people would be a good and compassionate thing to do but I don't think that neccessarily excludes a continued effort to capture Bin Laden and to totally neutralize al queada.

What I think is important to remember is that these folks were brought up in cultures where it was very popular to chant death to America(ns).

It appears theres something like a wild west atmosphere in northern Pakistan where basically anything goes. Its a very lawless region and the Pakistani goverment has very little influence there. The hatefilled madrases thrive there and elsewhere in Pakistan and they're brainwashing kids who will become very willing suicide bombers and terrorists. Some of these folks will never be satisfied untill America becomes a muslim country and they are determined and dangerous because they will obviously stop at nothing to accomplish their goal.

I'm not sugesting the USA is as pure as the driven snow here but there has to be a cessation of the hate mongering under the pretense of religion and education as well. How do you neutralize a religious "movement" that is totally convinced that the world will never be fit to live in until everyone is muslim?

"We will never defeat the militant Muslims and Al-Quaeda forces, we can only hope to change enough of the world's opinion of their true intentions to provide less and less support for their actions."

I think thats probably true for some of the muslim countries. I'm not so sure about Al-Quaeda. If their resources and organization are severely disrupted and their leadership neutralized it would certainly slow them down.

"And to do this we will have to radically change our foreign policy, which is deplorable and rascist in my opinion. We have got to learn to lead by setting an example for others to follow."

In principal I agree but in practice I dunno. From what I understand the American gov made a deal with King Saud in the 20's? or 30's. The deal was you sell us your oil and we'll provide military protection against your enemies. Thats obviously a self serving deal on the part of the USA but whats the honorable thing to do in that case? Do we abandon the Saudi gov to let them be taken over from within by the muslim fundies and break our word or do we keep our word, maintain the status quo and hope for the best?

I suspect its a matter of time and the whole house of cards is gonna fall. The Saudi gov, from what I understand is quite repressive and sooner or later the human spirit will demand to be released from tyranny, but then what?

-- Anonymous, December 21, 2001


Yep, I agree with you John, it's a big mess all around, damned if we do, and damned if we don't! But, as a diehard pacifist, I can't condone any type of warfare, for whatever so called "just" reasons, so that really puts a definite slant on my ideas concerning Afghanistan.

Religions of all types have been responsible for more deaths and discontent than all plagues and pandemics in the recorded history of the world, which I see as quite ironic in and of itself. I think folks confuse the need for spirituality with a need for religion, with disasterous results.

-- Anonymous, December 22, 2001



Thanks guys.That helped. You all made some really good points and noone got mad at anyone,either.

The interview was on CNN and it was a newsman interviewing him while he was given medical attention earlier in the month. Another newsman came on and said Walker hadn't told him all that much, but that newsman had interviewed him bf he'd been left in a truck on a freezing night. That's why I was so offended by the whole thing.Walker was being interview while under treatment and the whole "cooperate or will make this very unpleasant for you" approach that was used.

I've never seen combat.I know that you do whatever you have to do to survive when in combat situations, as instinct, from talking to Vets I've known who were in the worst of it. So yes, alot goes on that is reprehensible in other situations. But, he's a prisoner, not in combat now, and has rights, as Annie said.

And yeah, I've been worried about another undeclared war.Ever since Vietnam. That war tore my family apart, as it did to other families. I'm old enough to have played my part as a protester. My oldest brother was a captain in the Marines. Get the picture? We didn't talk ,for a long, long time, bc of that war.We had a hard time forgiving each other. Thankfully, we do now.

Jim, I downloaded that article and will read it when I can. Thanks.

-- Anonymous, December 23, 2001


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