I have not done the research nor have I read the books or seen the movie. I hear pro and cons concerning this latest fad. What say ye?

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

Answers

Can someone help me out??

Where in the Bible does it condone "good witchcraft for entertainment purposes??" Where in the Bible does it ever say ANYTHING good about spells, incantations.....etc....etc??

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

So Joe.....since none of what you said is based upon a single Scripture....which I asked for....let me make sure I understand your thinking. I'll break it down into a syllogism....

(a)My kids are not encouraged to read HP. (b)If they want to....it's OK...as long as they watch it with me. (c)Therefore, watching HP with Dad is OK.

Let's use that same thinking for this one.....

(a)My kids are not encouraged to look at porno. (b)If they want to....it's OK....as long as they watch it with me. (c)Therefore, watching porno with Dad is OK.

Ridiculous??? Absolutely!! But so is your answer. Instead of giving the Scriptures I requested.....you became defensive.

Last time I checked.....the celebration of Christmas did not involve witchcraft and incantations....unless you think the virgin birth was not a miracle of God. Also....I find no direct commands against the celebration of Christmas.

Now Scriptures against witchcraft, spells, incantations....where do we begin from the plethora that is available??

So again....I'm willing to listen to anyone that can show me the Scriptures that speak positively about any witchcraft, incantations, spells.....and the like.

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2001

Joe....you state that I said this....

"You claim that if something is not expressly authorized in Scripture that we can't do it."

Really??? Where?? Cut and paste???

What I said was.....this is clear cut. The Bible EXPRESSLEY forbids magic, witchcraft, incantations, spells, sorcery...et. al. I say nothing at all about only doing that which the Bible authorizes.

You are correct....the readers can see. They can see...1. You have not used a single Scripture to support your postion. (The Freedom thing was pathetic). 2. You have a terrible chip on your shoulder. I would have the readers notice how people like this freely use the word...."hypocrisy".....to cast themselves in a "holier than thou" vien above as he put it...."the modern church." Sweeping generalizations....is it not?? 3. Notice how people like this.....are smarter than everyone else....they are the only ones who have studied....they are here to save us.

Sounds like Bill Clinton!!

-- Anonymous, December 17, 2001

The lights always do cause the roaches to scurry.

-- Anonymous, December 17, 2001

John....

You stated..."Someone has an agenda."

I think you are absolutely correct on that and I believe it to be the author.

Now...I will be the first to claim lack of information on this....so I'm just saying this in passing.

I heard...in passing....that the HP author has anti-Christian sentiments.

I think it would be wise to look into the author's background and find out about him.

Ultimately, however....doesn't Satan ALWAYS have an agenda??

STAR TREK RULES!!!:)

-- Anonymous, December 19, 2001

Like I admitted John....uninformed!!!:)

Thanks for clarifying.

I do think, for people who think it necessary....an investigation of her background would be interesting. Often times....even hoaxes...have a grain of truth to them.

For me it's not necessary. The content alone is enough to make it uncomfortable for me.

-- Anonymous, December 20, 2001

Just another "issue" for the Christian community to embarrass themselves over. Remember "dungeons & dragons" in the 80's? *I* played the game, it was just that....a game. NOW I am a pastor. Did that game make me evil or cause me to worship satan? Naw....

Harry potter is in reality no different from santa claus. He is just as "magical" with his flying reindeer and superhuman abilities....how many Christians object to that with the same strength that they protest H.P.?

It distracts us from our real goal "to make disciples". Get distracted, satan wins another minor victory....

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

When I first heard about Harry Potter, I honestly thought they were talking about making a sequel to M*A*S*H.

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

Joe,

Maybe you were just fortunate to NOT be negatively affected by your D&D play? Maybe you had outside influences that positively influenced your life moreso? We need to speak up against all things that have a negative, evil influence on our youth.... IMO.

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

I've grown up on C.S. Lewis and the Chronicles of Narnia. So have my children. There is wizardry and witchcraft. There are spells and potions. What difference is there. Is there something specific about Harry Potter that makes it evil somehow. I have noticed that the harshest critics are those that have neither read the books or seen the movie. I am neither promoting nor demoting here. I would like to intellegent responses.

John, in MASH is was Col. Sherman Potter played by Harry Morgan.

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

We took our children to see the flick ... after much "checking up" on what we had heard.

Some Christian friends were sure the movie used "real" witchcraft incantations. That was about my only real hangup. After extensive checking, it was just another "Christian rumor" being banted around. The writer, while researching, tried to make the setting as real as possible, but she did NOT use real incantations.

I also checke diwht Chuck Colson, whom I respect in matters such as these. He made some real good points, and explained that it is a "good -vs- evil" type of flick, where the good guys win in the end.

I remember my wife using "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" in her 5th grade class at a Christian school some years ago. Many of the parents flipped out, and wnet to the principle (without checking with Kathy first ... typical Christian response, I have found out over the years). They had no clue who CS Lewis was ... what the books in the series were about ... etc.

While H/P isn't a "Christian" flick, it is a good movie about good and evil. Yes, I know, it would be better if it did have Christian overtones. I would love to see the entire Chronicles of Narnia books made into GOOD quality movies, but that may never happen.

Our 6 year old son found a couple of scenes intense ... but no bad dreams or aftereffects. I'm not sure if I would reccomend it to other children younger than 6 years of age.

If you like, check out http://www.screenit.com for a great site for checking on movies. You can also sign up for a weekly email update that gives a short review of all new releases on the Friday they come out, as well as reviews on new video/DVD releases.

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

Thanks Darrell,

DOes anyone know firsthand about the books?

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

Speaking of the Chronicles of Narnia and movies:

http://www.cinescape.com/0/Editorial.asp?this_cat=Movies&obj_id=31564&aff_id=0

In a nutshell: Walden Media now owns the film rights, looking to license the rights to "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" to NewLine/Warner Bros. I saw elsewhere that 2004/2005 is a target date (after the "Lord of the Rings" has finished its run, with the first one release next week and the next two released the next two holiday seasons).

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

Darrell,

Here is a portion of text from the site: http://www.crossroad.to/text/articles/Harry&Witchcraft.htm

"1. Chuck Colson praised Harry and his friends for their "courage, loyalty, and a willingness to sacrifice... for one another—even at the risk of their lives." Those qualities can be found in almost any culture. But, according to the Bible, a brave person is no more free to pursue paganism than a coward. Harry's occult skills -- witchcraft, sorcery, casting spells, spiritism, interpreting omens and "calling up the dead" fit into a category God tells us not even to discuss. "For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord...." Eph. 5:10-12, Deut. 18:9-12

Colson's dismissal of the dangers of delighting in such evils as "purely mechanical," makes no sense from a Biblical perspective. He says that "Harry and his friends cast spells, read crystal balls, and turn themselves into animals—but they don't make contact with a supernatural world…." Where then does their power come from? Natural rather than supernatural forces?

Of course not. Rowling doesn't acknowledge the source, but anyone who has researched witchcraft and talked with contemporary pagans will see the alarming parallels between contemporary occultism and Rowling's seductive message to children. (If you find this hard to believe, please read chapters 4 and 8 of A Twist of Faith)"

I don't know anything about this site (there is a lot of info there)... but the above seems to make sense to me. Could you comment on it?

Check this additional link for "12 Reasons NOT to see Harry Potter Movies": http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/HP-Movie.htm I realize that I am posting this without a full investigation... but thought this information might be helpful.

Thanks!

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

Prove all things: Hold fast to that which is good, abstain from all appearance of evil.

-- Anonymous, December 14, 2001

Okay, all Christians opposed to H.P. must now cease celebrations of both Christmas AND easter, both pagan "holy days". (Yule/winter solstice, and fertility day).

Don't be hypocrites now....you can't bash one and observe the other.

BTW, yes I did have positive influences.....by the people who spent time to teach me the TRUTH and not worry about side "issues". The people who flipped out on me for playing D&D never had ANY + influence on my life....and in fact, many have wandered from the Faith. Those who focused on what was important knew that Christian doctrine would displace everything else in my life, slowly but surely.

My kids are not encouraged to play/read HP, but they can if they want to. NOT an issue in my house. They were into "pokeman" when that was big....I can't tell you the hours I had to sit and watch stupid cartoons.....so that I could talk with my kids about what they were seeing. I spent QUANTITY time with them so that the QUALITY time would show. Guess what? "pokeman" has faded into the sunset as a quaint "kids show" that both of my children remember with fondness....NOT for the animations or storylines but because they used to watch it with "DAD!".

The idiots that drive a wedge between themselves and their kids deserve what the get....10-15 years down the road, young adults who want nothing to do with "mom and dad's religion". What sort of "christian" activities do those people engage in, I wonder?

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2001

Oops, forgot to sign my "name".

BTW, I have a bigger problem with "christians" who write occultic fantasy (like CS Lewis) than with the secular world. Not pro or con here against Lewis, just making a statement.

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2001

Ah, ignorant bliss from the censor. nothing "defensive" about it. I'm tired of people trying to win "battles" (which are not the least bit important) while lossing the war terribly. notice the outcome of those who attempted to "save" me from the evils of D&D....most aren't even following Christ. Those who were/are Godly didn't focus on a nonessential, they continued to teach me truth (as I do with my kids)

Do some study before you pop off....YULE the pagan holiday of worshipping nature (false god) on the shortest day of the year.....having NOTHING to do with the birth of Christ. this date was adopted by the roman catholic church. "satan claus" uses magic (witchcraft) to get around the entire world in one night, to make his reindeer fly, to get his tubby butt up and down chimneys, etc etc etc....does the scripture "authorize" such "good magic"?????

How 'bout the magical "bunny" leaving eggs for all good "christian" children to find...a bunny that can bring baskets of eggs???? is that "good magic" or bad magic???

See if you can find this one,

"all things are permisable, but not all things are profitable"

Its called FREEDOM....a concept sadly lacking on this forum (not by everyone). You claim that if something is not expressly authorized in Scripture that we can't do it. We live in a modern age with MANY things not spoken of in the Bible....what do we do with those? Should we be like those that won't accept medical care because God didn't "authorize" it???

You do a wonderful job of twisting my statements around....but everyone can see what I wrote. The discerning will glean from it, the unwise will continue to pick at the nits, just like the neopharissee's they are. I pointed out the hypocrisy of the modern church in "condeming" things like HP while at the same time celebrating a pagan holy day (yule) and a magical figure (santa claus) that is really no different from HP. Perhaps I struck a nerve with you.

Whatever, delete away like you have in the past....

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2001

Oh, and just so we are clear, do you really belive Jesus was born in the winter?

-- Anonymous, December 15, 2001

The difference in Lewis and the Potter books is that in Lewis' books, the magic is incidental and is usually owned by those on the side of evil and fought against, whereas in the Potter books the magic is central to the story and is used by the protagonist to achieve his ends.

-- Anonymous, December 17, 2001

"....yap yap yap...."

says the neopharissee.

I'm done here.

-- Anonymous, December 17, 2001

There is a video from jerimiah fillms called Harry Potter witchcraft repackedged you can order it from www.therealpotter.com for 1995

-- Anonymous, December 17, 2001

Any, person who plays with D&D, Harry Potter and the like are setting themselves up for real spiritual bondage. Satan and his demonic onslaught are waiting for place a spiritual hook inot our lives. I caution the minister or the Christian before they watch or play anything- look for the spiritual ramifications- eternity is too important.

-- Anonymous, December 17, 2001

Have any of you bible bashers actually *read* the Harry Potter books??? I've read all of them and think they're great (and I'm 30 - my niece suggested I read them).

While magic is central to the plot, the book does not promote the evil use of magic. It shows a young boy who despite being severely mistreated as a child who can still think of others and put their needs and safety before his own. He is generous, kind and thoughtful.

I think you should at least read the books and understand what they're about before ranting on about how evil they are and how Satan's gonna get us all because of Harry Potter.

-- Anonymous, December 18, 2001

Whoever you are, you do yourself no good by the childish types of responses you consistently give. Grow up, will you. You are in your 30's after all!

I believe Danny's points are very good ones. I do not have to read porno mags to know they are evil. The Bible tells me the behavior exhibited in pornography is evil, therefore I stay away from them and even though I may not read them, will preach against them and rebuke those that do read them. Does that make me ignorant? No, just obedient to God. I do not need to get drunk to know drunkeness is evil. The Bible says not to, therefore.....

I do not need to wallow in the mud with the pigs to know pigs are dirty.

If the Harry Potter books' main emphasis is on casting spells, wizardry and such, then the Bible tells me not to be a part of it.

I do not believe anyone here thinks that Harry Potter, by himself, will cause the devil to get them. That's not the issue. The issue is, what is right in the eyes of God. Is it right to take your children to see these things presented in a positive light when the Scriptures declare them as evil? My conclusion is no, it is not right.

I appreciate the answers given (the mature ones, anyway), of both perspectives. Danny, as always, your forthrightness cuts through the excrement. Thanks.

-- Anonymous, December 19, 2001

Scott,

Above you have said, "I've grown up on C.S. Lewis and the Chronicles of Narnia. So have my children. There is wizardry and witchcraft. There are spells and potions. What difference is there. " I have not read the "Chronicles of Narnia"... what difference do you believe there is?? I ask because you also now say, "If the Harry Potter books' main emphasis is on casting spells, wizardry and such, then the Bible tells me not to be a part of it. "

Is this "main emphasis" issue the main difference?? Or is it that the witchcraft in "Chronicles of Narnia" is not glorified? Or... are you now indicating that we shouldn't encourage "Chronicles of Narnia" to be read by children either?

Thanks!

-- Anonymous, December 19, 2001

Scott,

"I do not need to wallow in the mud with the pigs to know pigs are dirty. "

Coming from a long line of Pig Farmers... I resent that!! :-)

-- Anonymous, December 19, 2001

Robin,

One of the differences I see is the light shed on each. Lewis presents it as being wrong, although there is a time in one of the series that the main characters use a magic spell. But even that was to fix a bad spell.

Don't mistake what I am saying. I enjoy good fiction. Fiction often employs that which does not exist. I am a huge Star Trek fan. My wife tells me that there is no such thing as Klingons. She's not proven that yet ;o) but if she is correct, it's fiction. The whole basis behind Star Trek and Star Wars (a ST wannabe) is the theory of evolution. I do not hold to evolution and will strongly argue against it. It does not impact how I enjoy ST however. It's called fiction for a reason. God gave us the ability to imagine. It's a great gift. In the Chronicles, the main characters enter into an entirely new world where animals talk, dragons exist, the normal "laws" of reality are suspended. Not because of "magic" but because it is a different universe. Lewis uses this fantasy world teach Biblical principles.

Now, when that fiction delves into something God has called evil and makes it good, it's crossed the line. Even if the "magic" is distorted to make it more friendly, that does not change what the Scriptures say about it. The Scriptures say it is evil and not to be a part of it. HP makes it good. To me, that's the problem.

This is not to mention the doors that are being opened by the HP phenomenon. My wife and I were at a bookstore last night (I was looking for a particular ST calender) and we noticed a tear-off desk calender, which was aimed at children, of daily spells and little known facts concerning witchcraft. It seems the camels nose has entered the tent.

-- Anonymous, December 19, 2001

Annoyed: "White" majic, or so-called "good" majic, is just as evil as black majic. If the power doesn't come from God - and God says it doesn't - there is only one other source it can come from. Might I suggest a book to you entitled, "The Beautiful Side of Evil", which recounts the career of a former "white witch" and how seductive - and dark - "white" majic really is.

Scott is right. In the Chronicles of Narnia majic is almost always presented as something evil, by which evil forces attempt to gain power. Aslan uses "the deep magic from beyond the dawn of time", but since he represents the Son of God, it is suggested that this is not spellcasting but actually the power of creation itself, which only he can use.

-- Anonymous, December 19, 2001

Scott, I noticed something very similar. Thought people are saying the HP books do not promote witchcraft, that Christians are just being hysterical, the other day in Waldenbooks I noticed a large display of HP books, and alongside it a large display of wiccan, majic and spellcasting books for children. 'Nuff said. Somebody has an agenda.

-- Anonymous, December 19, 2001

Danny;

1) The author is a her ;)

2) I don't know Ms. Rowling's background, however I do know there is an email going around about her, which states she has an overt satanic agenda - this email is known to be a hoax.

-- Anonymous, December 19, 2001

Danny,

The Hoax that was spread about the author's hatred of Christianity is just that.....a Hoax. Check this site out for the details:

http://www.urbanlegends.com/ulz/harrypotter.html

Though you are right about researching her actual background - it might show where she is coming from.

-- Anonymous, December 20, 2001