This morning I was on the bus going to work and thinking about the rather nice and healthy designs for the Voigtlander Bessa cameras which I enjoy quite a bit as a low-cost alternative idea to Leica bodies. Then suddenly this insight popped into my head:

How did Voigtlander work around the Leica body designs. If you remember that the Bessa-R has a screw mount thread 39mm, I noticed that the Bessa-R is a screw mount thread with the body shape of the M. I remember that the Bessa-T has a M mount for Leica M lenses, I noticed that the Bessa-T is a M mount camera with the body shape of the old Leica screw mount designs. What occured to me was that the Cosina engineers reversed the designs and seemed to work around Leica designs by sticking the screw mount on the M-lookalike and the M mount on the screwmount-lookalike. Wacky isn't it?

What confirms this theory is that the old Leica screw mount camera bodies had a separate viewfinder and rangefinder which is found in both the screw mounts (Leica II, III, IIIf, IIIg) and the Bessa-T. What confirms this theory is that Cosina imitated the circular viewfinder and rangefinder in the same way that Leica had designed their screw mounts. More brilliant is the Bessa-R design which uses the rectangular viewfinder and rangefinder shared by the Leica M-series despite the 39mm screwmount. What we have is a reversal of fortune...

Okay, I guess that I had better stop before people think that I have too much time commuting on slow Philly buses. All the same, what do people think about Cosina's brilliant sidesteppings of Leica design? Poor Leitz guys swimming in their thoughts of overpriced bodies...

ps I really think that Leica and Cosina should band together rather than Leica and Minolta. Just a personal note.

Leica-fully, Alfie

-- Alfie Wang (leica_phile@hotmail.com), December 13, 2001

Answers

Patents aren't eternal. The Leica patent(s) for the M mount expired a couple of years ago, which is why we're seeing all these news lenses in the M mount.

-- Chuck Albertson (chucko@siteconnect.com), December 13, 2001.

Patents for the Leica LTM and M mounts expired some years ago. That is why Cosina was able to make those lenses without paying any fees to Leica.

-- Muhammad Chishty (applemac97@aol.com), December 13, 2001.

Styling is only patentable to the extent of preventing an indistinguishable copy, and in the case of a screwmount leica even these are very common (leotax, reid, nicca, fed, zorki, honor, kardon......). there is nothing in the design of the bessa series that would even come close to being considered a copy of the leica design. i think there are some details in the rangefinder design that had to wait for leica patents to expire, and they could have used the M mount now that it's in the public domain (and it seems it would have made sense).

rick :)=

-- Rick Oleson (rick_oleson@yahoo.com), December 13, 2001.

Hello Alfred,

what is CR ? I can not find it in my dictionary.

Good shooting

-- K. G. Wolf (k.g.wolf@web.de), December 14, 2001.

In medical terminology,rectum is the terminal part of large bowel,between sigmoid colon and anus.Cranium refers to one's head.

Alfie's unedited stream of thoughts can put some people off but Alfred B.D's outburst [that was edited out by the moderator] is uncalled for.

jasper

-- jasper (jtiong@rocketmail.com), December 14, 2001.

These Cosina Voigtlander are really a "killer" for the range finder.

For a while I was with the CVUG and the listers complained always about the "low" quality in which I disagree.

The Bessa R is a brillant "retro" design with an honorable use of current technology (SLR type shutter, light evaluation).

The lens, if they retain the "old" names are really refreshing. It's a brillant idea from Cosina to have put on the market some "filed" and "forgotten" lens projects.

Yes, the patent have come into the public area (it's something like 30 years).

In France, those having a Leica M have also bought a Cosina because they prefer to risk the "low priced" gear while complaining about the lack of quality (sic).

I like the Bessa R!!!

-- Xavier d'Alfort (hot_billexf@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

Wow, I didn't know that talking about the Bessa cameras here offended people so much to using the f word :)

Alfie

-- Alfie Wang (leica_phile@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

I wouldnt go as far as to use the [such vulgar profanity] but I have to agree your posts are getting to be quite idiotic ramblings but feel free to keep posting for fortunately your name is posted with the thread title so I dont have to open it because i just get annoyed when i do.

-- Joel Matherson (joel_2000@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

Wow, I didn't know that talking about the Bessa cameras here offended people so much to using the f word :)

Ahem... it's not the talk about Voigtlander cameras that's offends (the cameras/lenses definitely have merit). I believe what Dingus is offended by is this pointless thread.

-- Richard (rvle@yahoo.com), December 14, 2001.

Alfred B. Dingus, how about keeping the stinking contents of your foul mouth well secured within your septic mind. Your verbal bile serves only to ridicule you.

Duncan C. D. McMorrin

http://www.leica-gallery.net/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leicam6

-- Duncan (airborn@euromail.se), December 14, 2001.

I don't get it. The Bessa R looks very little like a Leica M. Short rangefinder, hump on the top, no canted rewind crank. The Bessa T looks very little like a screwmount Leica. Film advance by lever, no little metal knobs sticking out all over. Shouldn't it have separate slow speed controls? Film loading is by doors on the back instead of the archaic Leica removeable bottom.

[another dull and vulgar statement removed by the moderator]

-- Darren Spawn (dspawn@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

I would like to remind everyone that we do have a lady present and some contributers really should mind their language - my deepest apologies to Xavier for this 'gutter' behaviour. Regarding Alfie's point - I thought it was quite interesting though nothing to write home about. I read through it because I wanted to and if no one else wants to read through it then there's nothing forcing you to do so. I thought this was a camera/photography discussion forum but some of you seem to have completely lost the plot and I would prefer if you didn't return until you have found it.

-- Chris Timotheou (nowayout@btinternet.com), December 19, 2001.

I wish to extend my deepest apologies to the decent and responsible adults who frequent(ed) this forum for my failure to delete or edit out the trash that, with an alarming increase in frequency, enters our space. I did not catch the utterly foul language that seepped into this thread until now, and I must say that I am quite ashamed to be associated with it. I will from now on spend much more time looking for and removing such offensive material. That is, of course, if I haven't lost you!

-- Tony Rowlett (rowlett@mail.com), December 19, 2001.

I don't suppose anyone blames you, Tony - I certainly don't. You can't expect to moderate 100% of posts single-handedly, especially with the traffic this site gets. Mr. Dingbat, or whatever his name is, was taking unfair advantage of that.

-- Ray Moth (ray_moth@yahoo.com), December 20, 2001.

Yes - I agree with Ray! 3 cheers for Tony! Hip, hip, hooray!

-- Chris Timotheou (nowayout@btinternet.com), December 20, 2001.