Loupe Recommendation

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I want to evaluate B&W negatives prior to printing for critical sharpness. That is, to decide whether the negative is sharp enough to spend the time doing a proof print, etc. I have a 4x Schneider, but it doesn't have enough magnification for critical sharpness evaluation. Do any forum visitors have a recommendation for magnifier power, or for a specific magnifier. I am looking at a 16x Kenko loupe, but I'm not sure.

Thanks, in advance, for any thoughts.

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), December 11, 2001

Answers

Well, a plain 'ol Nikor 85/2.0 lens works really well for evaluating my Leica negs.

-- Steve LeHuray (icommag@toad.net), December 11, 2001.

I really enjoy using a 5X Afga Loupe for most purposes. I own a Quantaray Loupe which is dirt cheap and suffices for most of what I do.

Alfie

-- Alfie Wang (leica_phile@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.


Dan

I think an 8 or 10X loupe should be enough. I think you will find the small field of view and precise focus requirements too much when using a 16X. Even with a 10x you have look very carefully. I have a 22X and I never use it. Good for examining grain structure but tells you little about the image.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.


Dan, my experience is that loupes vary widely and that the stated power of magnification can vary between the brands. There are many makes of higher power magnifiers and loupes for critical inspection of portions of your negs/slides, but I have not felt the need to purchase one. I use a 5.5X Pentax loupe and find it sufficient to gauge overall sharpness of the negative or transparency. I know that Schneider also makes a 6X and perhaps a 8X loupe. I have not used the 16X Kenko loupe.

-- David (pagedt@chartertn.net), December 11, 2001.

I have four loupes from 4x to 10x and mostly use the ones with the lower magnifications 4x and 5.5x, even for the sharpness evaluation. My latest acquisition is an 8x, but it leads me to wrong conclusions, since slides appearing sharp on projection (with a Colorplan) show weaknesses on the light table... I must admit that I hardly use it.

Good contrast is more important than magnification.

The 10x loupe has a tiny field of view and is completely useless.

-- George (gdgianni@aol.com), December 11, 2001.



Has anyone used the Leica 5x Universal Magnifier? It looks kind of interesting because it has a slide/negative strip holder, as well as a skirt for light-tqble use.

-- Dan Brown (brpatent@swbell.net), December 11, 2001.

I haven't seen it myself, but pentax makes a 5x-11x zoom loupe- might be worth looking into.

-- Mike DeVoue (karma77@att.net), December 11, 2001.

"The 10x loupe has a tiny field of view and is completely useless."

My Schneider 10X is not completely useless, but it is not as useful as one thinks it is going to be. You can determine whether your image is critically sharp, but it requires careful examination. The field of view is going to depend on the optical design of the loupe. The most useful is the 4-5X loupes which give a full frame view, but these are not really enough to tell you whether an 8 x 10 or larger is going to be critically sharp as a 4-5X enlargment of a 35mm neg is only a 6 x 4 print. A 10X loupe will be able to give you an idea of 11 x 14 enlargment.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.


Well, a plain 'ol Nikor 85/2.0 lens works really well for evaluating my Leica negs.

Terrific hint, Steve! I doublechecked my glass collection and found both, the 75 lux and the 50 cron really comfortable to use as loupes. The 75 (rigid hood) gives me roughly 4x and the 50 cron (also with hood) maybe 6x. Then I tried the Olympus variety (the zuikos are really fine glass) and found the 50 to be the most suitable among my primes. You can find a used 1.8/50 at around USD 50 - why spend more on a loupe?

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), December 11, 2001.

why spend more on a loupe?

Since you asked: they do not have a skirt to work on a light table. Nor is their object to lens distance optimised for use on a negative or slide (that is: you have to hold them over a piece of film - gets tiring after a while). They are also much larger and heavier. Also you may breath or drop things on them, which would be a pain - not so bad with a loupe as these never have to produce a real image.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.



I also have the excellent 4x Schneider, and I have a cheap Peak 10x loupe which I think is completely useless: color fringing everywhere, contrast loss, soft edges--how can you judge sharpness with such crappy loupe?

I have never used a Schneider 10x, but given the performance of the 4x i'm sure it's a great loupe...in my case, though i seldom need magnification more than 4x to judge sharpness

-- Dexter Legaspi (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.


Robin, since you cared to reply:

why spend more on a loupe? Since you asked: they do not have a skirt to work on a light table. Nor is their object to lens distance optimised for use on a negative or slide (that is: you have to hold them over a piece of film - gets tiring after a while).

Well, as I said: a 75 lux with a rigid hood as well as a 50 cron (with its hood) are just PERFECT, including skirt AND distance from the slide/neg (I said I *checked* it...). BTW, if you want to see just the slide without the frame, on a 75 you close the blades to 2.8.

They are also much larger and heavier.

So? A lens *without* a loupe is heavier to carry around than a lens *plus* a loupe? (This refers to your Leica lenses, of course. If you add an extra Zuiko - with a rubber hood for the correct distance - you might be right for a couple of gramms)

Also you may breath or drop things on them, which would be a pain - not so bad with a loupe as these never have to produce a real image.

Tip: Get a Zuiko, as I said before, and spend less than on a loupe. Less dough, less pain...;o) For your Leica lenses: Hold your breath, get an extra lenscap, take off the bottom, thrill two holes and knot a string thru the sides to sling around your neck. Happy viewing!

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), December 11, 2001.

(Just to get those italics straight...)

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), December 11, 2001.

4x Scheider loupe, 5x Leica loupe is good for general viewing of negatives or slides, but not sufficient for critical sharpness.

The "standard" of sharpness depends on how large you want to enlarge your negatives, if you want to enlarge to 4x6", then you don't need a loupe > 4x; on the other hand if you intend to enlarge a Leica negative to 8x10", then 4x is not enough, you need at least a 8x loupe, if you want to enlarge to 16", you need a 20x loupe.

I use EMO-Wetzlar Emoscop, it is a device with 5x, 10x 15x and 25x magnification. Emoscop was designed and made in Germany, now Emoscop.com is in Hong Kong. See Emoscop

Emoscop can also be used as a tiny monocular of 2.5x, close focusing to 8".

I also use Emo-Wetzlar Octoscope, a four lenses eight mangification combo loupe.

Emoscop and Octoscope were all designed by Arthur Seibert, the guru who designed the incredibly sharp COMPLAN lens of Minox A

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), December 11, 2001.


The Leica loupe is the best that I ever tried, but at only 5X it is not for me. My opinion is that for checking the sharpness of fine details 8X is the minimum. So, some months ago I bought a used but mint Pentax 5x-11x zoom loupe. It's just gorgeous, huge and heavy metal construction, very good optics too. Now I don't breath on my slides as I used to do with high magnification loupes -that are usually very small- and my back feels much better too. In 4 words: I love this loupe! The only problem is that now I know that some of my slides are not as sharp as I thought!
Jordan.


-- Jordan Koussis (jordan@koussis.com), December 11, 2001.


Seibert Octoscop

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), December 11, 2001.

Opps, Emoscope.com does not work

Emoscop.com

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), December 11, 2001.




-- (dalegaspi@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.

I have a classic Schneider 4x for general picture evaluation and a cheapy 10x 'linen tester' - one of those small black square fold-up metal thingys - for sharpness evaluation. Linen testers are available in 10x, 15x, and 20x (and maybe more) and when I got mine were 20-30 bucks. I got mine at a university book store and used to see them in office supply stores. I don't know if the Office Max/Staples chains bother to carry them.

If I'm REALLY looking at sharpness I do a 2700 dpi scan. 8^)

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), December 11, 2001.


If I'm REALLY looking at sharpness I do a 2700 dpi scan.

I project them in my Pradovit w/ Colorplan. That separates the men from the boys! Oops that was a sexist expression....

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.


I have the Leica 5x Universal Magnifier. The neg strip holder is very handy, but I always feel like I'm breaking something when I try to take it off. Same goes for the "skirt." At any rate, 5x would probably be about the minimum magnification at which one can begin to determine critical sharpness. I would suggest 8-10x for that purpose. Why not bring your favorite slides to your favorite store and see if they let you try the loupes out?

-- Colin (Colin@hatespam.HELL.COM), December 11, 2001.

Dan let me add my $0.02 to the advice you've already received. First of all, it doesn't hurt to know how to figure the magnification of a lens. All you do is divde 10 by the focal length in inches. Or, divide 25 by the focal length in cm. Now, with that in mind:

For an 85mm lens: 25/8.5 = about 3. So an 85mm lens is only a three- power. That's less than your Schnieder Loupe.

For a 75mm lens: 25/7.5 is about 3.3. Still not good enough.

50mm lens: 25/5 = 5 power. Better.

35mm lens: 25/3.5 = 7, approximately. Now we are getting somewhere.

So the first point is, shorter lenses--wideangles-- have higher magnification than long focus ones. Surprise (try it). Thus a 75mm or 85mm isn't much of a magnifier, but a 35mm Summicron can double as a very decent no-extra-cost magnifier.

My other point is this. I use an Edmund Scientific Company loupe. I have a 9-power and a 12-power. The 9-power is great for judging negs for enlargement to 8 x 10. For 11 x 14 or more, I use the 12-power. These are reasonably priced instruments. They lack the prestige of Leitz or Schneider, but they fill the bill. I've had these for 20 years or nearly. I hope they are still available!

Best wishes,

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), December 11, 2001.


I really like the loupe I bought from Kiev USA. If you don't have an appopriate lens handy, the Russian loupes are extremely good value.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), December 11, 2001.

Martin, there appear to be two versions of the Emoscope: 2.5x and 3x. Do both versions have all the functions shown? And are the figures in the illustrations for the 2.5x, or the 3x? Also, does the Octoscope really cost $144 US dollars? Or am I reading that wrong? If so, the Emoscope looks like more bang for the buck!

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), December 11, 2001.

Jeff: That Kiev site is amazing! I supposed if they run short of camera lenses they can always substitute the loupes with no loss of quality. (JUST KIDDING!!)

CTEPEO ("stereo") 6x6 cameras - from LOMO no less. Unbelievable. I think the russians may steal Coigtlanders crown for kinky retro photo gear!

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), December 12, 2001.


Bob, there are two versions of Emoscop, Emoscop 3 and Emoscop 2.5 the former is the newer version. The pictures in Emoscop about construction are for both versions.

Following the URL given above for Octoscop, click on Magnifiers, you shall get to a dozen verious kinds of magnifiers, among which is the made in Germany EMO-Wetzlar Emoscop, at a price of $130, therefore, the price of Octoscop is right, as it is only made in Germany.

I have two made in Germany Emoscops, one is all metal, called Seibert Emoskop. the other is Emoscop SM.

The Emoscop.com Emoscops are made with German machines

For more about Emoscop visit EMO USER GROUP

There is message there, a guy who found a made in Germany Seibert Emoskop in a junk box for $5

Emoscop from Emoscop is more bang for the buck.

Emoscops are still being made in Germany, however only limited to distribution in Germany, and at several times price. I bought my Emoskop, Emoscop SM before I found Emoscop.com site martin

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), December 12, 2001.


Bob, I have an article Wizard of Wetzlar- Arthur Seibert in which I provide a brief discription of Emoskop and pictures of various versions of Emoscops on the market, amoung them Emoscop SM Saunders Emoscop USA, Haversill Episcop, USA

martin

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), December 12, 2001.


Opps, the Seibert URL does not work, try this Wizard of Wetzlar, Arthur Seibert

-- martin tai (martin.tai@capcanada.com), December 12, 2001.

I second Jeff on the Russian loupe recommendation. I have the adjustable HORIZON 8x and it gives me an even picture of the whole neg (for even less than a used Zuiko prime...;o). Cheers.

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), December 12, 2001.

Hi Martin,

When it comes to more than 10x magnification, which one do you find more easy to use, emoscop or otoscop. Thanks

-- tom tong (tom.tong@ckh.com.hk), December 12, 2001.


I've got the Leica 5x and I like it. It is, yes, less powerful than an 8 or 10 or 12x, but it does seem to work well enough for my needs.

-- Michael Kastner (kastner@zedat.fu-berlin.de), December 12, 2001.

Tom, for low magnification, Octoscope is easier, for high magnification, such as 25x/28x, Emoscop is much better.

Octoscop is a combination of eight loupes; as loupe or magnifier the focal length is about 250mm divided by magnification factor.

Octoscope at 28x has a focal length of less then 10mm--- meaning you must hold the octoscope very close to the negative, or diamond, camera lens, and what ever; because the distance is so close to the object underexamination, there is risk of scratching the lens

Emoscop at 25x is not a magnifier, but is designed as a microscope, it consists of a 10x object lens and a 2.5x occular, there for the distance of 25x Emoscop to the object is not 10mm, but 25mm (250mm /10 ), it is a more comfortable working distance for viewing delicated objects, like negatives, slides, jewellery, camera lens etc

-- martin tai (cg081@torfree.net), December 12, 2001.


I like mine; it's rectangular and fits a 35mm slide nicely: http://www.rue.com/archiv al.html#e121.

-- Hoyin Lee (leehoyin@hutchcity.com), December 12, 2001.

Thanks, Martin, this info helps a lot.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), December 12, 2001.

Martin, Thanks a lot, you are really knowledgeable. Regards,

-- tom tong (tom.tong@ckh.com.hk), December 13, 2001.

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