Folks,

A Jewish friend of mine told me that he had been to a few weddings where both a Roman Catholic priest and a Jewish Rabbi presided.

Is this permitted under Canon Law?

Thanks.

-- Steve Jackson (stevej100@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001

Answers

Steve, Thanks for this legitimate and significant question.

Is what you have described permitted under Canon Law?
It depends on what your Jewish friend meant by the word "presided."

A bishop can give permission for such a interfaith wedding to take place in a suitable place other than a church -- e.g., a bride's synagogue. And the officiating may be done by a rabbi, including the reception of the consent (vows) -- with a Catholic priest on hand (visibly or inconspicuously) as one of the Church's two required witnesses to the ceremony.

I suspect that your friend has seen this kind of priestly "witnessing" taking place, perhaps with the priest standing beside the rabbi. Of course, it could work the other way around, in which the rabbi visibly witnesses the vows offered in a Catholic Church, when the priest is officiating.

In either case, the Church allows the non-officiating clergyman also to speak at an appropriate moment, offering words of encouragement or prayer, though not to preach (explicating the scriptural readings).

But I hope that your friend has not seen an infraction of either part of the following Canon:
1127.s3 -- If is forbidden to have, either before or after [a] canonical celebration ..., another religious celebration of the same marriage for the purpose of giving or renewing matrimonial consent. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the Catholic assistant [i.e., clergyman or other official] and a non-Catholic minister, each performing his own rite, ask for the consent of the parties.

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.

-- (_@_._), December 11, 2001.

Folks,

I spoke to my friend. He has been to three such weddings (none of which was at a church or synagogue). He said that the priest and the rabbi were both equal "participants" in the wedding service. The rabbi would say some words, followed by the priest, then the rabbi, etc. In fact, at one of the weddings, the priest and the rabbi had worked out a quite elaborate "inter-faith" ritual. It was clear from what they said that they had been doing this for years together.

-- Steve Jackson (stevej100@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.

Steve, You don't know what was said, Because your example is hearsay. Which, means you are," repeating what you were told ". Where you actually there Steve ?

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), December 11, 2001.

Steve,

I forgot to mention in my last post. When you said, " in fact "

How can anything be in fact, When you were not there ? Rember Steve, you talked to your friend on phone ?

God Bless You.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), December 11, 2001.

Give me a break. I said "in fact" to emphasize what he said.

-- Steve Jackson (stevej100@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.

Steve,

Sorry, I second guessed you.

I am sure that, In the back of my mind, that I was thinking about your previous 9 Cathoilic bashing posts.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), December 11, 2001.

Jmj

Yeah, you had me fooled there for a minute, Steve. I thought that this thread was legitimate, but now I see that it is just another way for you to make fun of the Church that Jesus founded. Recalling now your past-expressed total disdain for any religion other than your own narrow heresy, I imagine that you must hate Judaism at least as much as you hate Catholic Christianity. Since you always sneer at Catholicism's ecumenical (inter-Christian) efforts, I imagine that you must think it ridiculous for a Catholic to marry a Jew in an interfaith ceremony.

I'm curious ... Does there remain in your own modern "confessional Lutheranism" the same high level of anti-semitism/anti-Judaism that was evident in Martin Luther's words? Are you sure that it's OK for you to have a "Jewish friend," Stevie? How many Jewish-Lutheran weddings has he witnessed?

Why did you just now mention that the weddings were not "at a church or synagogue?" I had already told you this: "A bishop can give permission for such a interfaith wedding to take place in a suitable place other than a church -- e.g., a bride's synagogue." Clearly such a wedding does not have to be a church or synagogue.

I just noticed that, in your original question, Steve, you used the term I have repeatedly asked you not to use -- "Roman Catholic priest." Your friend saw a "Catholic priest" at the weddings. By the way, the Canon Law to which I have been referring is binding on priests of the Latin (Western) Rite. Your friend may actually have seen a priest of one of the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church. They have their own Code of Canon Law. Or your friend may have seen a priest who called himself "Catholic," but who actually belonged to a schismatic church that refuses to be subject to the pope.

True, it is most likely that the priest was indeed of the Latin Rite (subject to the pope), but he may not have been fully aware of the details of Canon Law concerning what he was permitted or not permitted to do. It is less likely, but possible, that it was a Latin Rite priest who was aware of Canon Law, but who willingly chose to break it.

Last time, I quoted a Canon that showed the most important rules -- that there must not be two separate religious services and that the one service should not have two separate sets of vows, one elicited by each clergyman. Steve, you have not shown that either of those laws was broken, so your bashing was trite and pitiful (as always).

God bless you.
John


-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.

What went on doesn't seem to fall under the section of canon law that you sited; but is it your contention that a priest is free to create his own marriage service?

-- Steve Jackson (stevej100@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

No.
A prest cannot create his own Christian marriage service. There is a liturgy that he must follow when officiating at the Sacrament of Marriage.

However, I consider the ceremonies being discussed above as basically Jewish weddings (not inside a Catholic church building) at which a priest is only an active witness. It seems to me that, as long as he does not break Canon Law, and as long as he certifies that the couple have consented to genuine vows, the priest can take part in whichever ways the rabbi permits.
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

The impression that I got from talking to my friend was that it wasn't a Jewish wedding service (that's why it didn't take place in a synagogue). Rather, it was a hybrid Jewish/Catholic service that the priest and rabbi created themselves. I find it hard to believe that this is permissible.

-- Steve Jackson (stevej100@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

If it troubles you, Steve, I suggest that you speak to the Catholic priest (or his bishop) about it.
That would also be a good opening for you to inquire about your conversion to the "Faith of [Y]our Fathers."
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 13, 2001.

Well, the Roman Catholic Church can run its affairs as it wants; I just find it curious. In any event, a Christian shouldn't marry someone who isn't a Christian.

-- Steve Jackson (stevej100@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

Steve,

I am having trouble keeping up with your posts. You started off on 12/10 asking, about when your Jewish friend told you he had been to a Few weddings with a Priest and a Jewish Rabbi presided.

One day later on 12/11. You changed a few, into your friend was at three such weddings. But now Steven, your Jewish friend, told you it was clear from what they said that they had been doing this for years.

Steven, you go from a few, than you say it was three, and than your friend knows this was going on for YEARS.

I am suprised that you have a Jewish friend Steven, and I am more suprised that you put so much faith in what he supposely told you. I am suprised that your friend was at 3 such weddings, and it was the same Catholic Priest and rabbi at the different weddings! What are the odds on that Steven ? Rember you made the outrageous statement, "As a matter of fact"?

The only fact here Steve, Is you are intimidated of The Catholic Church. The next time you start a thread Steven, Please read what you wrote the day before, because your one track Catholic bashing mind now, has you saying your [make believe Jewish friend] words are "matter of fact".

God Bless You.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), December 14, 2001.

Steve, I forgot to suggest something to you! I think you should play the lottery! Because what are the odds of your "matter of fact" ? 3 different Catholic- Jewish weddings, and your friend was at the 3 different ones, and it was the Same Catholic Priest, and the same Jewish Rabbi at the 3 different weddings.

WOW!! David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), December 14, 2001.

Steve,

You bring up a good point (Christians should only marry Christians). I believe in this whole heartedly. In fact, I pray that my children will marry Catholics. I have seen in my own family where mixed faiths (Catholic and protestant) have resulted in neither faiths followed by the children.

Unfortunately, there are some Catholics that do fall in love with Jewish people. It would not be prudent for the Church to prohibit a marriage in this case. It could possibly drive a member away. Rather, they should allow the marriage with the conditions stated above, and hope for conversion of the Jewish spouse.

However, I do question your purpose for this thread. As John has stated, your friend has witnessed a prohibited ceremony. Therefore, either you are lying or your friend was mistaken. I would suggest you ask this friend of yours for more detail.

-- Glenn (glenn@excite.com), December 14, 2001.

Glenn,

Do you think Steve realy has a Jewish friend that was at the 3 different weddings? Do you think he is capable of having a friend of the Jewish faith ? Just being curious ?

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), December 14, 2001.

Maybe I'm gullible, but I would rather trust someone without proof of their lying. I do believe I have seen anti-Catholic posts from Steve before, so I do take what he said with a grain of salt.

My response to him was less directed at what his friend said, but why the Church would allow a mixed marriage.

-- Glenn (glenn@excite.com), December 15, 2001.

Glenn,
Steve has left many messages here in at least 2000 and 2001.
As far as I can recall, every one has been either outrightly or slyly anti-Catholic. He comes from that extremist wing of Lutheranism that is still very much hateful of the papacy, some of our doctrines and practices, etc.. I could be mistaken, but I believe that he actually thinks that his denomination has infallible teachings, a claim that is a great rarity within Protestantism.
I have given him the benefit of the doubt on a few occasions (as you can see at the top of this thread), hoping that he has undergone some kind of change of heart. But he has always let me down.
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 17, 2001.

A "Typical" Mr. Steve Jackson started thread.

David

-- David (David@NomoreJackson.com), June 13, 2002.

Steve Jackson, thread

-- @@@@ (@@@@.com), June 30, 2002.

To add to this, I had an interfaith wedding, with both a Roman Catholic Monsignor and a rabbi equally participate. We incorporated a unity candle, wine ceremony, breaking the glass. And my husband (who is Catholic, I am Jewish) got 2 dispensations from the bishop. And we received a letter from the diocese that our marriage is recognized in the catholic faith. As well, we signed a Ketubah with the rabbi, and have that recognition as well. The Monisgnor and the head of the diosese also ran interfaith pre-cana. And these weddings are happening all the time, the pre-cana was full and the rabbi and monsignor we used had done many ceremonies together before. The monsignor even gave a sermon that love transcends all boundaries, even religion and that G_d is the one who brings people together, regardless of faith. And the rabbi and priest also did a three-fold benediction together, in English and Hebrew. I think people who have a strong religious belief, of any denomination, need to accept all people, because we all came from G_d and when we die, we all return to G_d. Love and acceptance will get you a lot farther in life. Allison

-- Allison (abc@hotmail.com), April 06, 2003.

What a wonderful answer and sentiments, Allison! Thanks for ending the wrangling.

-- ~Chip :) (chipster_clg@yahoo.com), September 27, 2003.