Debts of £12 billion.

More job cuts.

Could Newcastle go the same way as Gateshead?

That would be an amusing irony ,wouldn't it!?

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

Answers

Haha sorry man.....NTL have nothing to do with newcastle financially anymore :))

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

Since when?

Oh I see,NTL on your shirts REALLY DOES stand for nee trophies like etc etc etc

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

Mr Shepherd bought all their shares on Oct 23rd....

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

Well what about the massive loan they gave you?

Have you paid that off?

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

Presumably if any debt is still outstanding there'll be a repayment agreement with the administrators.

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

And maybe we'll get the brown ale badge back! :-)

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

It was my belief that the shares were in return for the loan? the amount of shares was set out when we took the loan and were therefore greatly reduced in price by the time NTL got them....probably why Freddy picked em up so cheaply....

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

The NTL question is part of that huge question about the financing of your club.

Roly's post about Barclays Bank has far bigger implications thou, so I guess we'll all have to wait and see how it pans out...

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

We could then rename this board the "Sunderland BBS", whole threads seem to be for them so why not ?

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

Sorry I must've missed that posting from Roly....anything of interest?

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

Whole thread about Sunderland?

Apart from alter-ego names of a present and a past Sunderland player we do not get a mention.

Is your bitterness blind as well as fatal?

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

NTL 's shareholding was indeed purchased recently by Fat Fred - at a knock down price of course!

They also had a £25mm Convertible Loan that would have been convertible to ordinary shares at a price of £1.35 per share. This arrangement was recently renegotiated, and £21mm of the Loan was converted into a new class of non-voting shares that are subordinated to all other equity, and therefore don't dilute the existing shareholders.

The remaining £4mm of the original Loan will be used to finance NTL's sponsorship of NUFC for the next few years (3 or 4).

As part of these refinancing negotations it was agreed to form a 50:50 Joint Venture between NTL(Premium TV) and NUFC that will seek to exploit NUFC's media rights. This is the key residual corporate relationship, and NTL's current financial problems are of great concern in this regard, given the importance of generating incremental revenue from the Club's media interests.

I sent a letter to the NUFC Chairman, John Fender, prior to the EGM when these arrangements were voted upon, expressing my concerns, not over the advisability of the arrangements, but regarding the choice of media partner. Given the the pressing need to renegotiate the pre- existing Convertible Loan, there was perhaps no choice but to proceed with NTL - however this was a very critical decision for the Club, and this exercise only serves to prove how important it is to get into bed with the right partners, at the outset!

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

Gav - Roly's post was on the "Gateshead" thread, and actually it was very interesting.

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

Thanks for the pointer....it was interesting....

Don't worry gang, if push comes to shove then i'll buy the club from barclays.....

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

..... well that's a relief Gav - I've been rather worried about it, so good to know I can relax now. ;0{]

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

I reckon you're lucky having a rich benefactor in your Gav on here, heaven knows what would happen if I bought your club.

Hell does thou ;o)

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

Excuse my ignorance, but surely if the club was in as much poo financially (or at least potential poo) then The City would have reacted? Our share price has hardly flickered for the best part of a year now. Newcastle's finances are always a favourite topic of conversation among mackems, especially when we're playing reasonably well; if Shearer hasn't missed a penalty, Shay hasn't let in a soft goal, or YBR hasn't said something daft in a post-match interview then there's no ammunition for them. They then trawl out the old Newcastle are going under story. I'm not defending Daft Doug for a minute here, he's obviously completely out of his depth and fat Freddie is little better (although at least his heart is in the right place) but our terminal demise really is wishful Wearside thinking.

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

Dave - my sentiments exactly.

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

I dont post here that often, but when have I ever mentioned anything to do with the ammunition you mention?

I havent, not once, it's not my style.

But I keep a keen eye on the city and pay close interest to anything football finance in general.

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

It was a general observation GavM, you must admit our finances are a bit of a hardy perennial among Sunderland fans when discussing matters Black and White.

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

I'm just like any other fan who wants their team to improve. I'm as frustrated as any with Bob's infuriating prudence. But as much as it pains me to admit it (on here anyway) he's doing the right thing by being careful.

This finance bubble is getting so big, I'm just wondering which set of fans in the PL is going to get the needle first.

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

When Phillips leaves the bottom line will look even better

-- Anonymous, December 10, 2001

It'll be chewsea exploding first....by a long way!

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

Let's all hope Bates explodes first then...like Mr Creosote.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

I gather Kuddly Ken was his usual diplomatic self recently denouncing absentee american tourists as 'cowards' for not filling up his wretched hotel. With Colin Hutchinson leaving, economic black-clouds gathering, and an unchecked Bates left in charge... interesting times ahead perhaps.

I was going to type something facetious about hoping they go under, and then thought better. If one big Premiership club ever did go bankrupt it would be very damaging to the financial reputation of everyone else, including us.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

Would it be damaging to football in the long run, if a Chelsea imploded? Not so sure myself, although there is a difference in going out of business totally and having to drastically re-assess spending - selling players, cutting wages etc.

It might mean that some reality comes back into the game, financially speaking..

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

Ideal scenario would be for massive public humiliation for Bates and his vulgar wannabe club. Wouldn't want them to fold, just languish - stripped of assets - in the lower divisions while Fulham rise to prominence in West London. Can't think of a more objectionable man in football than masterBates.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

To an extent GavMakem is right about prudence but it's one of those catch-22 situations: if you don't invest, you risk p*ssing off the fans and putting yourself in an equally bad financial footing. Sunderland and Newcastle both got a fright with slow season ticket sales in the early part of the closed season. Having said that, both teams have some very good young players coming through - theoretically, for example, we shouldn't have to buy a centre half for the next eight years.

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

What bothers me about the future is when the first club to have it's 'bubble burst' in the PL may just be the first domino to fall.

The predictable knock on effect will cause city financiers to panic and start to tighten their purses and pay more attention to the clubs accounts in general, fearful of losing any more money.

And Macbeth, you should know I'm bite resistant, I've had plenty of experience ignoring all those kinda comments on TOTT many many times b4... ;o)

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

I doubt city financiers would ignore football stocks more than they already are!

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001

>>Can't think of a more objectionable man in football than masterBates

Al Passport-ayed?

-- Anonymous, December 11, 2001