What's the fastest way you guys warm up your M6s when you come indoors from the cold, like say into a house or a car with a heater when it's winter (below freezing) out?

I already bag my cameras to deal with condensation but is it safe for me to place the bagged cameras next to a heater to bring their temp up faster?

I'd like to shorten the time between an outdoor winter shoot and an indoor one.

Thanks for any responses.

-- victor (danzfotog@yahoo.com), December 06, 2001

Answers

And as an addendum to my post,

I carry my M6 in a hip pouch, which stays under my winter parka. Would it be enough to simply keep my camera in the hip pouch (after the camera has been sufficiently chilled by outdoor use) while it warms up when I'm in my car or inside? In other words, would the hip pouch replace the ziploc baggy?

Thanks.

-- victor (danzfotog@yahoo.com), December 06, 2001.

Victor:

I don't know what you mean by cold. And it depends on the humidity in your area and the inside shoot. I have used them at -50 Fand brought them indoors. I just wait. Patience is the answer. Putting them next to a heat source [whatever that means] will heat the outside quickly, but not the inside. My cold climate is not at high humidity [let's face it, water content at -50 and 100% saturation is nil]. I haven't tried this at 32 F and 100% humidity. I just haven't had the problem. The mirror in the blad will fog up and that is a pain.

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), December 06, 2001.

Victor:

One last thought from my experience [even though I am beginning to believe that you don't mean cold], move the film slowly or you will get discharge streaks; even after you come inside.

Art

-- Art (AKarr@aol.com), December 06, 2001.

Leaving the equipment in the hip bag (closed) should work just like a baggie or any other container, although it may take longer to warm up - the hip bag padding will be an insulator.

RE heater - Art's right that it will tend to heat the outside while the inside doesn't warm AS fast, but everything will probably warm somewhat faster (simple physics - the greater the heat differential, the faster the heat transfer.) Just don't bake your color film!!

You might also consider one of those compact hand-warmer thingys - put it in the bag while still outside. But I'm not an expert on those - they may put out moisture as a part of the catalytic heating process or get too hot - so I'll defer to any other opinions that come along on that point.

Coldest I ever shot was -26 at a Chicago fire. One hour with a Nikon F - "I" quit functioning before the camera did. I put it on the car floor where the heat comes out and did no damage.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), December 06, 2001.

For me, the problem's usually in reverse. Here in S. Florida most of the time I'm coming from A/C which in public places is often set to 65F, out into 80-90F temperatures and high humidity. The same thing happens getting out of the car. I've tried the ziplock-bag-with-air- squeezed-out. Nothing seems to work except to wait.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), December 06, 2001.

Andy:

The coldest that I have shot was - 57 F [according to the weather station]. I had a IIIF and an F2 [in SW Montana]. Both worked great. I have a shot of a coyote on a snow bank in Yellowstone that is frozen in time ;o).

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), December 06, 2001.

So - Victor - where are you shooting and what do you consider "cold"?

Art - Brrrrrr!

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), December 06, 2001.

Victor, RE Andy's observation that the inside of the camera warms more slowly than the outside, I will add that, when brought outdoors, it also cools more slowly. Thus the innards might not need so much warming when coming back in, because they didn't get as cold as the outside, either.

My instinct would be to warm it gently. As Andy pointed out, the warmer the environment, the faster the heat transfer (Newton's Law of Cooling). But enough is enough. Putting it in an environment that is still tolerable by humans would seem reasonable. In other words, not 12" from a 5100 BTU electric heater, but maybe in an 80 degree room.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), December 06, 2001.

I always carry my Leica under my coat in the winter, either on my shoulder for casual use, or inside the front when it's working, and it stays warm that way--doesn't have problems coming inside. If you can manage to get to it quickly enough, there are a number of advantages to having it under your arm, including the anti-theft idea.

-- Michael Darnton (mdarnton@hotmail.com), December 07, 2001.

i read somewhere that if you intend of using the m6 below -20° you should get it adjusted at leica's. does anyone know what they are doing there and whether this is then a cold-only-camera?

-- stefan randlkofer (geesbert@yahoo.com), December 07, 2001.

Stefan:

For mechanical cameras, they change the lubricants as I recall. Sort of like going to lower viscosity oil in the car in the winter. It probable helps, but I have never done it. For battery functions, you really need an external battery that you can keep warm. Just using mechanical cameras, I have no experience with them but Nikon makes them for this purpose.

Andy:

One does a lot of stupid things when one is young. I remember skiing at Loveland Basin in the 60's when the wind chill was below -110F [that was as low as they could report]. This was before the tunnel. We were there because Loveland pass was closed with a slide and the road towards Georgetown was closed the same way. Nothing else to do.

Then there was the time at Bridger Bowl in Montana. It was funny. A ski club from Fargo was there for the week. They wouldn't go outside because it was too cold. They took some good natured ribbing from the locals.

The normal Leica worked well both times. ;o). I'm sure that if you did this for a living, you would want the camera winterized.

Art

-- Art (AKarr90975@aol.com), December 07, 2001.

I'll have to admit that you guys have me beat on what you're willing to tolerate in terms of cold temperatures.

I'm just shooting some winterscapes and lakescapes in some MN national parks. I'm not willing to go out for extended periods though when the temp drops below O Fahrenheit. I just don't have much tolerance for cold weather, especially when it's windy, which can happen here in Northern Minnesota.

Anyway, thanks for the info everybody. Keep posting your coldest shoot. It's interesting to read what people go through to get that 'shot.'

-- victor (danzfotog@yahoo.com), December 07, 2001.

Victor and Stefan: An friend took his unmodified M6 to Antarctica on a journalists' junket. He reported that at about 25 below - right at the bottom of the operating range that Leica lists - the meter (battery) quit and the shutter began really dragging. His FM2 (and even an FE2) kept working - at least as long as he could stand being outside. I believe the all-metal vertical shutters use self-lubricating metals and don't need much (if any) soft lubricants that can gum up in the cold.

BOT - He baggied his cameras, but complained that at polar temperatures it still took 4 hours for them to warm up. He began leaving the Leica indoors so that he could use it as soon as he got back inside, while the Nikons were 'warming their heels' in their plastic coats.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), December 07, 2001.

Victor: Living in Alaska, I have used an M3 at -40f without any problems. I had Professional Camera Repair remove the lubricants in the early '70's and the cameras performed well. When I was shooting, I would hang the camera on the rear view mirror when I got into a vehicle to warm up while shooting auto ICE RACING on a lake. Be careful to wind and rewind slowly as you get little "y"'s from static if you move the film too fast. Repeated freeze thaw cycles with the same roll of film IMO removes the moisture from the film and makes it very brittle when you process it. For warm up, why not leave in the hip pack next to your body. Direct contact is a better thermal transfer medium than the air. I believe it would warm up in less than 1/2 of the time of just air. I tore the film in two once at -20 and used a coat as a dark bag to remove the film. The camera did fine, but I froze. Today was -10 degrees. Enjoy the cold.

MJ

-- Mark A. Johnson (logic@gci.net), December 09, 2001.