O.K.......so I always wished that the law would have allowed me to homeschool my children back years ago. This week I have my grandson and we are doing first grade and loving every minute of it. I have to say my appreciation of the homeschooling mamas has climbed to a new high. I am exhausted at the end of the day. Now I know that grannys tend to get that way anyway, but oh my goodness the challenge of keeping up with his little mind is truly awesome. However do you manage to keep your housework done?? Anyway.......homeschool mothers......my hats are off to you and keep up the good work.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 05, 2001

Answers

From a homeschooling mom, Thanks Diane! It's not easy, but it's definitely worth the effort. I have a 6th grader and a preschooler, who's just now beginning to learn phonics. It'll keep you on your toes, that's for sure! ;-)

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), December 05, 2001.

My homeschooling theory is that a child is a million times more important than the housework (which somehow manages to get done anyway). It is a huge commitment but well worth it. I have to do a bit more planning than before, but one of the bonuses with homeschooling is the flexibility you have. On my weekly cleaning day we start school later in the day. When the weather calls for only a few hours of sunshine and it is wash day we work around that. Kind of breaks up the monotany for the little guy too. Somedays, we just take the day off and go outside and talk about the birds or the cows or chickens. Priceless!

-- Karen (db0421@yahoo.com), December 05, 2001.

I homeschooled for two years and wish that it could have continued, but our circumstances didn't allow it. However, I do know that I learned as much or more than my children did. Wow! I guess I didn't pay attention in school or something because I really packed in the information as we went. We enjoyed reading aloud together and got to know some terrific families in the Indy area. My hats off to those of you who continue to homeschool. Stick with it, it is worth it.

-- Dena (ddew1962@earthlink.net), December 05, 2001.

Home Schooling can encompass 'housework', baking, soapmaking (chemistry), dust mites, pantry flies (biology) butchering, sewing (commom sense) etc. I'm not talking about making sure the mahogany and silver is polished, [although did you know that if you put a sheet of aluminum foil in the bottom of a stainless steel sink, add a cup of baking soda and tarnished silver the chemical reaction will remove the tarnish (or most of it)?] I did not home school my children, but taught them every chance I had, and children are exhausting! Children are also eager to learn. Shut off the TV and teach your 8 year old son how to sew a pillow, 12 years from now he might borrow your ancient sewing machine to make a custom convertible top for his truck. One of the proudest days I've ever had. To Home School is a gift for the gifted of patience! I never even considered it, but the rest of us can teach our own in our own way, and make a difference. Just forget about the dust bunnies and hope they don't breed!

-- Kathy (catfish201@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

I don't know. Guess you take it one day at a time and do the best you can. I certainly don't get all the housework done. Teaching the children and doing other chores is more of a priority than eating off the floor!! ;)

-- Rebekah (daniel1@itss.net), December 05, 2001.

Diane. I also admire those who make the sacrifice to homeschool their children. I hope this experience will also increase your appreciation for those of whose who teach in the public schools. I willingly and happily teach a room full of rambunctious 13 year olds every day. It's a challenge, but I love it.

-- Jim (catchthesun@yahoo.com), December 05, 2001.

Yes, the schooling of the children is greatly more important than the "clean" house. This was really ment as an appreciation of homeschool moms (and dads). :>) Jim, although I think it is wonderful that you "love" what you do, no.....this experience has NOT given me a greater appreciation of public school "educators". If anything it has made me even more angry that the teachers and their union in my state continue to make waves for homeschoolers. As is frequently the case on these forums, I feel somewhat angry that someone has used my thread about one thing to push their own political agenda. I liken your comment to me having a thread on just experiencing my first milk cow and the disciple needed to make it work, and a factory farm worker comes in and tells me I should now have a greater appreciation of his job that he loves. NOT

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 06, 2001.

Good grief, Diane. I think you over-reacted to Jim's comments. Be glad that some teachers love their jobs. Not all public schools are bad, and not everyone is pushing a political agenda.

-- Katherine in KY (KyKatherine@Yahoo.com), December 06, 2001.

What sacrifice? Watching a young child learn about the world is one of the sweetest joys on earth---a bit like having your first goat kid born, or first chickens start to lay, only every day!

Homeschooling's a blessing, not a sacrifice!

And the *only* work I've found in homeschooling was learning to get the heck out of my child's way. That took me a little while, I admit, but I learned. (And many thanks to my daughter for being so patient while I did!)

-- Julia (charmer24@juno.com), December 06, 2001.

"Be glad that some teachers love their jobs. Not all public schools are bad, and not everyone is pushing a political agenda."

Katherine, I don't believe that is what I said at all. I just said I was annoyed that it seems to happen so often that threads have this happen. I am glad that some teachers love their jobs, I did not say that all public schools are bad, nor did I say that everyone is pushing a political agenda. Perhaps I did "over-react", but I still find it very annoying.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 06, 2001.

THE MAD MINUTE approach works! In school this would apply to how many math problems could be done in one minute, when we homeschool, it applies to how much cleanup each can do in 15 minutes. We set the kitchen timer for 15 minutes, and each is assigned a room or area to tackle. At the buzzer, we stop cleaning and get back to schoolwork. If this is done 2 times or so during the day, it gives everyone a needed break, and keeps the clutter from burying everyone and making it manageable for late afternoon/evening cleanup.

-- Sandie in Maine (peqbear@maine.rr.com), December 06, 2001.

...oh, yes and also housework is just as important in home education as math. My girls (and older son) have learned how to bake, sew, do laundry, do food shopping (this was a fun assignment for me...), manage a budget, and of course how to clean. I would lump it all under LIFE SKILLS but it could also be lumped under HOME ECONOMICS.

-- Sandie in Maine (peqbear@maine.rr.com), December 06, 2001.

When I first started homeschooling, 9 years ago, I was unsure of myself and bought the curriculum and sorta did school like I did as a child when we would "play school." Didnt work at all for us; my oldest daughter does not thrive in any kind of structure, and I was soon researching like crazy to find other ways. Happened on to the concept of unschooling, and that is what we have used ever since. Like Julia said, basically the only 'work' involved is getting out of the kid's way, and lettin them do their own thing, in their own way and time. Being there to answer questions, take them to the library, to a factory, to a museum, theater, nursing home, hospital,concert, wherever their interests lead them. Always supporting those interests, even when they seem bizarre or boring.

It's no more work than just plain ol parenting is; to me it would be unfathomable to have them go off to school, although they always had that option available too. I think schooling, like parenting , should be primarily about respect; I personally see the whole idea of government-controlled, compulsory schooling to be indescribably disrepectful to childen. Children who are always treated with respect will treat others the same way, and the fact the opposite is also true is quite apparent. Go visit a typical junior high school.

Diane, I liked your analogy about factory farms! That is exactly what a 'school' is, IMHO.

-- Earthmama (earthmama@yahoo.com), December 06, 2001.

One of my sisters homeschools her 3 boys. After breakfast the boys help her "Tidy the kitchen before school", which only takes a few minutes with the help of 2 kids and a toddler ("Helping" like the older kids pleased the toddler and keeps him from making other messes.)After school, the kids pick up the schoolroom and put everything away BEFORE they are released for the day. I know there are crayons for the toddler while the older kids are learning, that probably isn't enough to keep such a small child busy for as long as his brothers are in school, but I don't know how else she juggles the youngest without distracting the other two. As for the rest of the house work, she is young, healthy, and VERY hard working!

-- Terri (hooperterri@prodigy.net), December 06, 2001.

The housework definately has to wait 'til we can fit it in. Throw a load of laundry in while the two older kids study for their test. We keep the books piled at the end of the kitchen table through the week and put them in another room for the weekend. The 5 year old works on a Math Blaster or Reader Rabbit CD while I read with the 2 older kids. I'm always thinking..."what can I be doing while they finish worksheets?" You find time to go to the library, 4-H meetings, Boy Scout meetings, Bible Study, field trips, game days with other homeschoolers etc...As long as the house is pretty much in order and laundry is just about done by the end of the week, I'm happy. The kids are all required to help feed the animals, put their laundry away, wash dishes, vacuum when asked, clean under the furniture (it's all their things under there anyway, and keep their bedrooms in order. The boys (5 and 11) keep firewood in the house and shovel snow when needed. Summertime, everyone helps in the garden and doing yardwork. All pitch in and help when asked. You need to be somewhat unstructured so as things come up, you fit them in.

-- Cheri Asprion (t.asprion@worldnet.att.net), December 06, 2001.

Earthmama, so glad to hear from another unschooler! I was beginning to think we were the only ones... Totally agree with your post!

-- Bren (wayoutfarm@skybest.com), December 06, 2001.

No, you're not the only unschoolers. :^)

-- Julia (charmer24@juno.com), December 06, 2001.

We are unschoolers here too! Our two most awful years of our lives were when I let the kids try out the Waldorf school here. Talk about SACRIFICE. The toll on our family almost broke us.

Now we are back to our joyful life, our house is cleaner, our food is better, the kiddies get enough sleep on a saner schedule (the oldest especially is wicked if up before 730 or 800, no matter what time she gets to bed!) and we are doing all the things we missed. Likewise, no more destroyed self esteems by being told they aren't good enough, being forced to be "on track" with the other kids when not ready, no more trying to be "perfect/cool" and trying to "fit in" with a bunch of kids who haven't been raised with our values....and in some cases, raised in day care!!! It ISN'T natural to spend 6 hours a day with a group of kids your own age doing all the exact same thing at the same time in the same way. I sure don't do it, hated school myself, and thought it interfered with my real life even as a child. I couldn't WAIT to get out of school, and graduated high school and college as early as possible.

-- marcee (thathope@mwt.net), December 06, 2001.

We unschool too! Of course, we're just starting, but the girls are so independent and stubborn that we figure we'll just let them do their thing and provide as much guidance as they ask for... Otherwise it would be like pulling teeth. I don't think I'd ever want things any other way.

-- Dawn (olsoncln@ecenet.com), December 06, 2001.

What's housework???? I do manage to keep the clothes and dishes clean. Dusting MAYBE once a month and vacuuming once a week. My 2 girls are 11 and 16 so they help ALOT and they can do most of their school work on their own without me standing over them. Homeschooling is not a sacrifice. Worrying about what is happening to your children in public school all day, now THAT'S a sacrifice!!!

-- Lou Ann in KY (homes_cool@msn.com), December 06, 2001.

Wow Diane, you're a bit uptight aren't you? I wasn't pushing a political agenda on your thread. I don't give a damn about you or your silly thread. I do care about the children I work to educate.

If you are so fed up with the schools in your area and unions, I would suggest you find a better place to live. If unionism and other liberalism is rampant in your area, it is not worth saving. Why do you stay?

I work at a good school. Yes, it could be compared to a factory. Yes we educate many children, and we are forced to do it with the least possible amount of funds. Homeschooling is great for those who can pull it off. For the masses whose parents are barely literate, what would you suggest? Should they just forego school while you promote your anti-union agenda? Everyone needs an education. We get stuck with the kids of the crack heads, alcoholics, idiots, and other undesirables. We turn many of them into responsible citizens. We also lose some to the prison system.

The same can be said for homeschooling. I have seen students pulled out of our schools and educated by a caring, intelligent mother. They thrive. More often, I've seen them pulled out and educated by a barely literate trailer-park ex-whore who is upset that we don't include Jesus in our curriculum. When mom gets tired of it and we get them back, they are always behind their classmates.

I do a good job at my school, and every day I work is a day I could be making three times as much money doing a real job.

Don't sterotype people Diane. I'll try to avoid stereotyping you into the aforementioned trailer- park category, though statisitics show as a homeschooler you most likely fit there.

-- Jim (catchthesun@yahoo.com), December 06, 2001.

LOL.........Hey Jim, just a note of thanks for your bright and shining example of why lots of us homeschool!! What a hoot!!

Oh, and don't forget.....all those "masses of parents who are barely literate"? They went through the "educational" system you so heartily defend!

I rest my case........:)

-- Earthmama (earthmama@yahoo.com), December 06, 2001.

Jim, Wasn't that last post of yours more of an attack?

I don't believe Diane was being "anti-union" (just any union I mean), but the NEA is certainly not "homeschooler" friendly. If you are really not aware of this, please check out their goals each year.

Let us all in on these "real" jobs that pay three times what a teacher makes. I'm sure my husband would like a job with pay like that also. Are you not aware that a lot of educated people work at jobs that have salaries comparable to teachers' salaries or less?

I doubt that you made many friends here among homeschoolers with your reference to "statistics" (what statistics?) and quite possibly embarrassed some readers here that are truly good public school teachers.

-- Terry - NW Ohio (aunt_tm@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

Jim, nice post.......I don't need to say another word. You are a shining example of the type of people I experienced. If I had one wish for our educational system is that people like you get REAL jobs as you call it. The MEA has done more damage to the educational system here than I could ever hope to discribe. Actually we, homeschool parents, in my area have worked hard and gotten several people elected to the school board and elected a government that is finally opposing the MEA on many fronts. So Mr. however you are, we CAN have power against you and your type without leaving our lifetime homes.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 07, 2001.

My son is a shining example of the "When mom gets tired of it and we get them back, they are always behind their classmates. " type. He graduated at 17 and made $45,000 on his first job (autodidactically trained Visual Basic programmer). He is not atypical either. Homeschoolers take heart, even "trailer trash" -I hate this phrase- folks can educate their kids to the standards set in the schools. Poverty does not equate lack of intelligence. I also applaud all who care about their children's education, and sympathise with those who would like to homeschool, and who cannot for whatever reason. (Lack of confidence does not preclude success...)There are many who teach their children outside of school hours, and who are recognised as "after-schoolers". My most ardent supporters of home educating my children are public school teachers!

Bless all in this country, where we are free to have our own opinions, and are not forced into educating our kids in any one system.

-- Sandie in Maine (peqbear@maine.rr.com), December 07, 2001.

You don't give a about Diane or her silly thread, Jim? (Nice language there!) You work at a good school - and yes it can be compared to a factory, Jim? (We don't want our children "educated" in factories!) Trailer trash ex-whores, Jim? (Again, nice language!) You could be making three times as much money doing a real job, Jim? (I thought teaching WAS a real job!)

And you wonder why people are fed up with the public education system?????

I'm so thankful to be able to homeschool my children. I'm so thankful that they are being educated in a loving, creative, free- flowing environment. And I'm so thankful that they aren't having to spend several hours a day in the "factory" with people like yourself, who don't even consider teaching a REAL job.

-- Cheryl in KS (cherylmccoy@rocketmail.com), December 07, 2001.

Well, it certainly was nice to have annoyed so many of you. Looks like my work in this thread is done. Those of you who have read my posts before know that I am rabidly anti-union, and I am not a member of the NEA. Many of my friends homeschool their children, and I am their biggest supporter.

I am a thorn in the side of those at my school who consider teaching a real job. It's public service plain and simple. Those who went to college and began teaching at the age of 22 are the major problem. They are the NEA members who have never had a job where they had to compete, they are the ones who feel entitled to their jobs regardless of how poorly they perform.

I worked 28 years in the private sector mostly as a CPA. At $38,000 per year, I do make about a third of my former salary, but I smile when I go to work.

I'm sure many of you are doing a great job homeschooling your kids, and there are many pathetic public schools. The converse is also true.

-- Jim (catchthesun@yahoo.com), December 07, 2001.

"Well, it certainly was nice to have annoyed so many of you. Looks like my work in this thread is done"

That's pretty sick and lame jim. I fail to see why you would think that that was clever in any way.

-- diane (gardiacaprines@yahoo.com), December 07, 2001.

Not all teachers are as exacerbating and irascible as has been demonstrated here.

John Taylor Gatto is one such teacher, voted in as New York State Teacher Of the Year in 1991, given a plaque by Encyclopedia Brittanica as their choice for Teacher of the Year, on three occasions named teacher of the year by various organizations including the National Association of Secondary School Principals, and many more accolades than I can list here. He went on to be the best advocate for change in the schools in many years. He frequently is guest speaker at Homeschools Fairs and groups all over the country. He teaches that there are "seven lessons that schools currently teach through an invisible curriculum", namely, Confusion, Class Position, Indifference, Emotional Dependency Intellectual Dependency, Self Alienation and You are Watched. Furthermore, in a speech given at the University of Texas at Austin in September 1991, Gatto begins his speech with these words :

"Let me speak to you about dumbness, because that is what schools teach best...." I own a copy of this speech, and it is well worth every homeschooling educators' time to read it. Also Mr. Gatto has written several books which I recommend: "Dumbing Us Down The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling", "The Exhausted School", and "The Empty Child".

Another Educator you may want to read about, is Marva Collins, a Black inner city teacher who did not give up on the POOR INNER CITY children (would they be classed as "trailer trash"?) and opened a private school whose excellence goes far beyond what most imagined a black inner city school could do. She takes the stance that EVERY child is intelligent, and capable of OUTSTANDING SCHOLARSHIP regardless of RACE, INCOME, or LIVING CONDITIONS. She went so far as to teach these poor inner city kids Shakespeare, you can read of her success in Marva Collins "Ordinary Children, Extraordinary Teachers" and "The Marva Collins Way".

We may all be familiar with Jaime Escalante, who likewise believed in his poor barrio kids in California. He took his kids to the top in Calculus, a subject that the public school did not believe Hispanic kids would ever understand, and through his teaching, these kids got high scores on the pre-college (AP) Calculus exams. They were promptly accused of cheating their way through the tests- would these kids be considered "Trailer Trash"? Read about Jaime Escalante in a book called "ESCALANTE" by Jay Matthews.

What makes these people extraordinary? THEY BELIEVED IN THE CHILDREN THEY TAUGHT- UNCONDITIONALLY. They did not label these kids, but expected excellence from each and every one. Perhaps that is one thing that the homeschooling movement typifies. WE BELIEVE IN OUR CHILDREN. That child who returns to school "a year behind", IS HE BELIEVED IN?

I suggest that all public and private teachers educate themselves as to the success of Home Education, and perhaps adopt some of these philosophies for application in their own curriculums before speaking out against homescoolers. National Spelling Bees, National Geography Bees, Harvard University, National Association Of Public Libraries, LOOK AROUND change is here, it is only a matter of time. Cyberlearning is the way of the future, there are already online charter high schools. Public education is undergoing change, from the grassroots movement of homeschooling.

Knowing that ignorance breeds contempt, it is best to try and understand the Homeschool Movement, which is only gaining in strength and numbers at an astounding rate, before prejudging those that undertake to educate their own. We not only read about history my friend, we ARE MAKING history.

-- Sandie in Maine (peqbear@maine.rr.com), December 08, 2001.