Apparently Sunderland are being linked with Nicolas Anelka.

Wouldn't suit Sunderland's style at all IMHO, although he's still a canny player.

However, I couldn't see his and Reid's honeymoon period lasting long.

Complete bollocks if you ask me, although if there is any truth in it, it suggests Phillips is well on his way, as Anelka is never in the world a Niall Quinn replacement (only scored one headed goal in his football career)

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2001

Answers

Arsenal Previously

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2001

Surely not the same Sunderland whose manager puts anyone in the reserves that dares to become high profile or speak their mind?

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2001

Peyter signing Anelka would be akin to Tel Aviv Rovers signing Yasser Arafat - can't see it.

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2001

It's not April Fool's Day is it?

;-)

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2001

It will only be Anelka if Trezeguet turns them down

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2001

They should sign Van Hoydonk(too early to even attempt spelling that one correctly) to partner Anelka. :-)

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2001

I think his skin colour is wrong for Mackemland!?

Not a racist comment

-- Anonymous, December 02, 2001

Bud Wiser, I am bemused about your final remark, stating that your comment is not racist.

Are you aware that you are being racist and your final remark is merely a provocation to those who find racism unpleasant? Or do you genuinely think that your comment is not racist? If it is the former you are a merely a twat and you can go fuck yourself. If it is the latter, do you think widespread allegations of racism, particularly those used in a joking way are likely to contribute to the anti- racist cause or assist those who actively want to promote racism in football?

Racism is now regarded as unacceptable in almost all areas of life. One of the few areas where there is still a widespread problem is football. Clubs such as NUFC and SAFC, being based in areas that (on the whole) did have large scale immigration from the new commonwealth areas are particularly vulnerable to influence from unsavoury elements. In general, at SAFC we (partly the club and partly fans' organisations) have kept things reasonably well controlled. However, we certainly can't afford to be complacent. I don't know how well or badly things have gone at NUFC.

So are you saying that, in general, we would not welcome a non-white player? Given the complete intermingling of NUFC and SAFC supporters in the North-East, are you saying there is a greater tendency for those of a racist nature to head towards the Stadium of Light than St James' Park? Fairly nonsensical as a proposition isn't it?

If you are at all interested David Bellion, a frenchman, is the same "colour" (if that is how you like to classify people) as Anelka and he has been welcomed at the Stadium of Light. He had a dreadful game at St James and many people are pessimistic that he will come good (although he has never really had much of a chance up front in his natural position). However, to my knowledge he has not suffered from any racism at the hands of the club or its fans (thank god and only to be expected but you seem to feel it would be different).

In real life it has been my experience that those who use racism as a "joke" against others have not displayed particularly strong anti- racist tendencies themselves. Maybe you are different.

I am sorry to be so po-faced about this but racism is not a laughing matter to those who suffer its effects. It ill becomes us who support football teams where we know there are problems, to make jokes about it in an attmpt to score fairly petty points against each other.

FTM

-- Anonymous, December 02, 2001

Christ, what a monologue.

Anyway, back to the point, I can see Reid getting Anelka on loan. The Makems are screaming out through the media for a big name and a loan would permit them to do this without committing serious funds. Anelka could give them the European place that would make SOL more attractive next summer. All in all a good deal for them and for him, he has mates Robert and Distin close by. I wouldn't write this off actually because he is p*ssing PSG off big time.

-- Anonymous, December 02, 2001

Unbelievable, you were obviously not around this BBS when the 'debates' about 'players of colour' and SAFC were held, I wish I hadn't bothered posting.

I have no argument with your posting, although the use of 'tw@t' and 'fu@k' were far from necessary, I can't be @rsed to insult you back, not my style anyway.

-- Anonymous, December 02, 2001

I see, you are only qualified to join in debates if you have followed each and every debate on here and committed it to memory? I was replying to your rather tastelss little jibe in isolation. No doubt those who do follow this BBS more closelty than me will see your remark for the brilliantly incisive Wildeism it obviously is. Strange how similar it is to many moronic comments we get on RTG. By the way, I was only insulting you if you fell into the former category in my posting - if you selected that one, my remarks to you are very moderate compared to what you deserve.

As regards Dougal's point on the "main" subject I agree for the most part (except for the getting into Europe bit- god almighty couldn't do that for us this season). While the Anelka thing is 95% certain to be bollox, there is an underlying logic to a loan from both parties' point of view.

FTM

-- Anonymous, December 02, 2001

Not worthy of a comment, obviously way to clever for me :-(

-- Anonymous, December 02, 2001

Herts - you do yourself a great disservice by insisting on using the moronic and childish "FTM" tag at the end of well-considered posts.
Pity.

-- Anonymous, December 02, 2001

It could be worse :0)

-- Anonymous, December 02, 2001

It could be a lot worse, at least he isn't thick enough to post "2-1" at the end of his posts (although there is still time)

-- Anonymous, December 02, 2001

Herts - I think Bud is airing a view which is perhaps borne out by SAFC's transfer policy. I think you'll have to agree that on average, SAFC have far fewer coloured players than most EPL teams. Whether this is a mere coincidence or a more deliberate policy is not for me to say. Perhaps coloured players are too expensive.

For what it's worth, I'm with you on this Anelka thing. Although his last two transfer fees have been way, way over the top, he will still expect a big wedge in wages - rumoured to be £70,000 pw!! Unless this comes down significantly, I can't see anybody in the EPL willing to pay that - nevermind SAFC.

I'd say you're far more likely to get Reyner in replacement for McCann who is trying to price himself out of the club. Maybe that's a less controversial line that you'd like to take up Bud ;-)

-- Anonymous, December 02, 2001

We should get him if Sunderland can afford him. Christ, Him 7 Bellemy would run a defence ragged.

-- Anonymous, December 02, 2001

I think I'll just TOW THE LINE on this one Screach, it might just affect my day job otherwise :-)

-- Anonymous, December 02, 2001

If you say so M'lud.

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

The PSG fans want rid of him - scores on average once in about ten games. What did they do to him at Real Madrid?

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

By the way, I think this sounds really plausible. Reidy may have issues with Anelka - apparently he didn't play in their League Cup game against Troyes (which PSG won 4-0 away!) because he didn't feel like it and he loved clubbing in London so his general morale would need monitoring but I still think it's gonna happen.

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

I'm with Paul, I can't see this happening for a minute. Monkey Heed has never been one to get the chequebook out and I can't imagine him having much time for prima donnas (and Anelka is indisputably one). With all due respect to the dump down the road, Anelka himself is unlikely to fancy a move to Sunderland over a more glamourous destination and comes across as the sort who would be happy enough sitting on his over-inflated contract and dossing around until he can go on a free. Reid's alleged racism is probably a bit of a side issue here.

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

From a PSG fan: "We couldn't be so lucky as to get rid of him - he's always got something or other wrong with him and will hardly ever deign to play and when he does play, it would be better if he didn't".

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

We have hit a nerve, haven't we ?

Herts, I suppose you'll be telling us next that you've never cracked or even laughed at an Irish joke, or, god forbid, a joke in which a coloured person was the butt ?

Would you have reacted to Bud's posting in the same way if he'd said 'I think his scots accent is wrong for Mackemland!' ? That in my opinion is equally as racist as what he did post.

You don't know any of us from Adam and I think you'd have done yourself a favour to have sussed out the general attitude on here before doing your nut.

If it'd been a blatant 'I hate darkies cos they're darkies' type remark, you'd have had most of us backing you in condemning Bud.

As far as I'm concerned, 'coloured' was a reference point for what he was trying to say, which was nothing more than 'Sunderland don't have on their books, many players who have a high level of melanin in their skin, do they ?'

God help us all if we've got to start using longwinded crap like that just so we don't inadvertently offend somebody's sensibilities.

And sorry if I'm speaking out of turn Bud.

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

Howay MacBeth I didn't have a chance to follow that argument :))

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

PB:-'Sunderland don't have on their books, many players who have a high level of melanin in their skin, do they ?'

They also have a severe lack of Seratonin an all... miserable gyets.

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

Pit Bill, I know exactly what sort of tedious shite goes on here. I also know that you pride yourselves on being "serious". Well racism is a serious issue. Using it as a tool to try and score a petty point over your local football rivals is f'ing pathetic. You see postings with the same crap sentiments frequently on TOTT/TWR/RTG. Almost all the time I let it go, because if you challenge anyone they tend just to disappear into anonymity. Here, you mainly post under your own "names" (or Macbeth "outs" you). I guess that is some sort of upside to go with the downside of just having a little clique that permanently reinforces each others' stale views.

You are right that I don't know Bud (or any of the rest of yers). Maybe he is not the complete wanker he appears to be from his posting. However, as I said to him, I can only react to what he posts, not extrapolate to the wonderful fair-minded 3D person he must be.

FTM 1-1

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

Herts - a brief history of the reyd vs black players debate on the BBS. he has a track record of basically not signing players who happen to be coloured (when was the last purple player!?). My tuppence. I don't necessarily think monkey-heed is racist, but in the days of a multi-coloured swap shop in the transfer market it does look less than the norm for a premiership team (ok, wannabes :-) ) to be so underrepresented in that area. For a team with alleged ambition it is fair to ask why there is such an apparent anomaly.

However, most of the rest of your initial post was right - racism and racists have no place in football (except as target practice). But picking on Bud for an off the cuff remark isn't fair. Nobody trails through their postings in case there's any possibility of being accused of racism / jingoism / makemism. The premise is that everyone on here is sound enough...certainly, I'd have no problem having a drink with any BBSer ('cept Gav of course ;-) ) and most of us have met at some point, or have expressed similar anti-racist views.

To conclude (finally!) it's a bit rich for a stranger to our BBS who knows little / nothing of the posters to point the finger. As for what happens on RTG, that little place stopped being any fun years ago. Cheers :-)

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

Herts, all football sites try to get one over on local or other rivals - you should know that. I was on a Man Utd site the other day and they were saying "Where's yer Beatle gone?" to the Liverpool fans while the Scousers were posting the rules of the InterToto for the benefit of the Mancs. I'm afraid you've got to live with it or stay off sites that upset you. I noticed a Makem on TOTT full of pride because TWR had reported that NUFC were collecting for the New York firefighters before TOTT did - even the Makems thought he was a sick f...k for trying to score a point in those circs. In any event, it's dead simple, if you don't like it, go away. If it's that tedious, what are you doing furtling around on threads like this? SMB - Five Pound and you Fill Your Ground.

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

PS. THe SMB bit was to demonstrate the tediousness of it all.

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

Reckon my wife is a racist judging by the expletives she has been coming out with lately aimed at the tv and asylum seekers , I can live with it, least I have for nigh on 40 years. Herts I don`t know Bud either but following his itinary over the last 3 months I would gamble that he has mixed with more races, business and socially than anyone else on this board, deal in facts,cut out the fancy words,Truth Herts!

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

Herts
'... I know exactly what sort of tedious shite goes on here...'

So why bother even looking, never mind posting ? Bit sad I'd say.

Racism is only a serious issue with racists. If you're unaware in the first place that there even is a difference, on a personal level, racism won't come into it. Obviously, you'd have to be blind not to see a physical difference like skin pigmentation, but that should be only as significant as eye colouration.

As far as I'm concerned, anything is fair game when you're taking the p1ss. The banter that goes on among familiars can be in no way related to the unreasoned hatred of an individual because of some ethnic difference.

The criterion for me is that if you know the guy well enough, you can use any feature of his/her persona to single him/her out for what is nothing more (in the eyes of those involved) than good natured banter, as long as you include everybody you know well enough, not just those of the same ethnic background as yourself.

The assumption is that there'll be no problem when they use the same approach with you. Those involved will generally know or be told one way or another and in no uncertain terms if they've overstepped the mark.

If the appearance of what's going on might sometimes offend oversensitive outsiders, tough tit. .

And incidentally, I notice you didn't answer any of my questions, so I can only assume it was Makem of Herts ranting and not Concerned of Herts.

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

Racism IMHO is an overused word.

Whenever the words "black" or "coloured" are so much as suggested there are accuastions of racism flying around left right and centre.

Bud's comment was nothing more than an observation from what I can see.

My grandad has been known to spout some remarks about the Welsh (a Welshman stole his football boots during the war)

Is he "merely a tw@t" who can "go f*ck themselves"?

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

...and be a w@nker too?

Thanks folks, my flippant remark (and his responses) has been bugging me for the last 48 hours...if he (Herts) only knew 1% of my background.

-- Anonymous, December 03, 2001

Back to the original point of this thread, the Makem panellist on The Premiership last night was very confident that they'd be getting Kanoute (who said the North of England stank of p*ss with its little houses and poky shops), Anelka and Reyna this week.

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

Any idea what they're expecting to fork out for that lot ?

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

I had no idea Kanoute knew S**derland that well! :-)

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

I heard that as well Dougs and just had to laugh. Talk about putting on an act in the face of adversity !! I hope they come back to him next week and ask him how many of those players Reid has signed ;O))

On a separate point, last night was the first time I've had the chance to watch The Premiership and I thought it was pretty good. Inevitably you wish they'd put guests and guest fans on the spot a little more. BTW do they ever have a Newcastle fan on ?

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

Loons, they do: he's quite good actually, doesn't say anything absurd and basically says it as it is.

What makes me laugh is that they have people in the studio in London watching the match rather than at the game so we had the spectacle of a Spurs fan sitting on a sofa watching the match three miles away from WHL...

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

Loony - don't be fooled by the "Monday Magazine" prog. It carries the same name as the Satday prog but most of the adverse comments are down to the "MotD" replacement which is basically cr@p. IMHO it would be improved if they'd take that ageing has-been off and replace him with Gabby.

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

So she could gaily carry on referring to the Camp Nou as the New Camp?

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

I have to confess that I always used to call it the Nou Camp (didn't everyone in England?) until I was in Barca a month ago, went there and was reminded that it is the Camp Nou. BTW for anyone interested in football memorabilia it has an absolutely fantastic and large museum which also entitles you to go and sit in the stands for as long as you like. Much cheaper than the stadium tour option if you're on a backpacker's budget like me !!

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

Loons, Nou Camp is OK - it's "New Camp" that staggered me.

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

Hey, it's been the same old camp since I started on the telly, ducky!

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001

That Bolton fan has been on every week I've watched the Monday night show, he's becoming one of the main stars.

I liked his reaction to Spurs' winner - hand over his mouth, sit back in chair, drink lager.

Have to say that Sunderland fan made me laugh about Kanoute, although quite worryingly he didn't seem to be taking the p*ss, which suggests he may be too thick to find his way back to Sunderland after the show is finished.

-- Anonymous, December 04, 2001