Last Sunday's mass

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One of the things that was kind of tangentially stated in last Sunday's mass was that as Christians we are to follow Christ's example (no, *that's* not the tangential part!)

Anyway, the priest went on to say that in attempting to follow Christ we become tied to him, and that we could expect our lives to follow his as well. That seemed to me to be pretty deep, if what he was saying was that our destiny *as Christians* is to become more fulfilled spiritually, but yet suffer more temporally (physically) in the process. It would seem that far from Christianity being separate from the world there's no hope but to be *opposed* to the way of the world which teaches us to make ourselves comfortable, at the cost perhaps of helping those around us as much as we could. I don't suppose this is really new either, though.

What I'm wondering is how many people out there REALLY try and live Christ's example then? I don't think I do considering I keep the house warm when I could keep the thermostat down at 50, and I use but don't really NEED a snowblower, when I could do with a shovel. Granted there's a difference between using something nice, and desiring that something more than one's Christian beliefs, but if I had to ask what we really *need*, it's far less than what we actually consume. How much then of an impedent to salvation is money?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), November 29, 2001

Answers

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-- s (CI@tc.c), November 29, 2001.

Frank,
It need not be an impediment. It's the LOVE of money that's the root of all evil, and money can accomplish a lot of good in our society. If we're unselfish. We should remember what all material goods really are: God's providence. As such, God's own property, to give or take away. Didn't Job say something along those lines?

The main problem in our day is, men earn money and assume it's theirs. But it isn't. It's provided us by God, and without His grace and providence we'd all be in the Black Hole of Calcutta.

In Anne Catherine Emmerich's visions she saw Saints Ann and Joachim, the parents of the Blessed Virgin Mary, living very prosperously.

Our Lady's parents were large landowners, with many flocks of sheep, and an abundance of grain and fruits as their yearly produce. You can see, the abundance, the increase in their crops and herds each year was truly coming from above. God makes the land rich, and animals to reproduce in great numbers. And the saintly parents of Mary were thankful; they acknowledged all was His gift. Every year at harvest, they split equally the material wealth; 3 ways: A third part for the poor. A third for the Temple, and the last third for themselves. With their own part, a third, they cultivated the land, and raised more livestock; and each year God granted this holy family even MORE of an increase in their wealth! I found this to be a tremendous illustration of the love God has for all of us, if we only trust in Him. Instead of being concerned with building wealth, we ought to bring what he gives us to Him-- and have Him distribute the shares, (if we are able)-- Because He would surely treat us as good stewards, wouldn't He? He would bring us not only an increase in wealth, but His grace in abundance. The wealth we have to leave behind us anyway, when we die. But the grace goes with us to His judgment seat. May His Holy Name ever be praised and glorified! Amen.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), November 29, 2001.


Dear Frank, You and I seem to have the opposite problems. I wonder about what is right too. Being poor is just the way things are in my house. The snow gets "broomed" off the sidewalk as I don't have a shovel. The heat has to stay low in order that the gas bill gets paid. Not that I like it much and there are times (like at Christmas) when things really bother me. However, when we are having tomato soup for Thanksgiving, we give thanks that we have that as there are many who have less or nothing. It's not a too heartfelt thanks as we are all human and sometimes life just doesn't seem fair.

A very wise nun got tired of my bellyaching one day and told me to look up these verses in the bible. They are Luke 18:24-25 and Luke 12:29-33. I felt very guilty after I had read this and finally figured out that being "rich" or "well-to-do" by society's standards may actually be a impediment to the hereafter. Whenever I get feeling very low I still remember those bible verses and the good nun, who is now departed, and I think how very lucky (rich) I really am. You know, some wonderful people lived and worked in that Black Hole of Calcutta and I think more should try to be like her--and my name should be on the top of the list of those who need to improve and learn to live with less. Ellen

-- Ellen K. Hornby (dkh@canada.com), November 29, 2001.


Ellen,

I thought the slow and continual stripping of my "riches" was horrible. I went from a life of extra, to one of reliance of others. Still, am quite fortunate. You serve as a right example of humility and thanksgiving to God for what you do have. While I battle to live on a church salary, I still have much more than I need for me and my beloved dog. Ellen, you remind me, that now, in my challenges, there is so much to be appreciative of. God gives those who can endure what they can endure. I think it is a form of Purgatory...so offer up your negative feelings and your pain. Offer it to the souls in Pugatory relying on our prayers. Your suffering and the pains of us all are not in vain if we persist for each other. You are an example for us all, Ellen. And know my prayers include you and your family. Your faith is your gift...share it with all you feel comfortable in doing so.

Melissa

-- Melissa (holy_rhodes@earthlink.net), November 30, 2001.


The Apostle Paul taught us that he had experienced life when he had an abundance of provision and also when he was in need. In everything and in all circumstances, the important lesson he learned was to be content with where God had placed him.

I don't think the matter is so much riches versus poverty as either being closer to Jesus. The point is to obey Jesus as He directs YOUR personal life.

Some people will be called to give up everything to serve the poor and to minster to God's people. Others are called to work hard and earn money to have abundance so that they can provide the means for the ministers to do their work. Both are in God's perfect will for their lives amd share in Christ's life.

We should always be giving and serving others. Some have little, and can mostly give of their time and comfort. Others have much and should be generous to give to those with little.

We are all called to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ and to follow His example. His example was to be completely surrendered to the Father's will in His life, which culminated with His sacrifice on the cross. Some are called to drink from that same cup and are martyred for their faith. Others are called to give up all worldly possessions in order to be completely free to serve God and to minister to others as Christ did. But Jesus also was supported by a host of men and women who gave of their time and possessions to support Him and His ministries. They also served God in total obedience and share in the reward of Heaven.

We are Body consisting of many parts. Jesus is our head. We are to be obedient to our head in whatever the head asks us to do. If I am a big toe, then my job is to help and provide balance for one of the feet and legs (not a glamourous role). I cannot strive to be an ear (prophet), that is not my calling and if I were to attempt to do so, I would be disobedient to the head even though I would be attempting to do a good and Godly thing. We all have different roles in the Body and the Body only functions correctly when everyone knows his/her role and is functioning in that role. We need our toes to be toes, our eyes to be eyes and our arms to be arms.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), November 30, 2001.



Dear Melissa, Ellen, David, et al:
Our Father in heaven even sent His Divine Son to save us; this was Jesus' ''vocation''. We all have one. Paul mentions it in the context of membership in the Mystical Body, or the mystical vocation. He was speaking of the various orders of vocational callings, every one important to the Mystical Body of Christ.

Nowadays, a vocation might be to one man his musical career, or a woman who works in a day-care center. Mother Theresa's was a calling to comfort the poorest of the poor. Our daily work isn't always a part of living the Gospel. But our life itself is, and it has to be. Even when it isn't significantly religious, it can offer itself to God through Jesus Christ, our Redeemer. He makes each act of ours HOLY, by sanctifying grace. This means we must conserve it (grace) by avoiding all sin.

Then the self-denial so particular to Ellen Hornby, and the heroic virtues of Mother Theresa are EACH pleasing in the sight of our Father; as Jesus' grace given us by His holy death and Resurrection, makes them holy. Every True Believer in a state of sanctifying grace, be it a poor man, a baseball hero, a cab driver or a king-- lives a vocation fitting for the Body of Christ and His members. We don't all have to be missionaries or bishops or philanthropists. We are simply called to be holy.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), November 30, 2001.


Ellen,

Good luck with everything! Things for us at least seem to (at this point at least) have worked out in the end.

David and Eugene,

I understand what you are saying that in the community we all have different roles to fill, and our own callings. Let me rephrase the question a bit: how do you really know your calling IS a calling, and not a comfortable and delusional lure put out by the Devil? That's what got me about Sunday's mass, the priest's saying that in truly emulating Christ, we become tied to him, and our lives will reflect that. To me it's easy to say "yeah, whatever you (hopefully enjoy) do is good", but much harder to say "Christ calls you to a life of temporal suffering in following him". I don't know if I really believe it, but I wonder about it. In life things worth having whether in relationships, academics, athletics, professional life all come at the expense of suffering first to attain an better end. Shouldn't the end of Salvation then require much MORE suffering on our part to get there, or should we be like the (oddball Christians) that say that since Jesus died for us we don't have to do anything and will still be saved?

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), November 30, 2001.


Dear Frank,

First of all, what an inspiring thread!! To answer your last question, there was TREMENDOUS suffering to obtain salvation, but it was on Jesus' part. But He does call us to take up our cross and follow him, so it is wrong for people to say that we need to do nothing. Everyone's cross is different of course, and no matter what our vocation in life, we all have our cross.

My simple two cents.

Carolyn

-- cksunshine (cklrun@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.


Cksunshine,

To answer your last question, there was TREMENDOUS suffering to obtain salvation, but it was on Jesus' part. But He does call us to take up our cross and follow him, so it is wrong for people to say that we need to do nothing.

That's the best answer I think there is! I guess the way to look at it is that we don't have to attempt to duplicate Christ's suffering, that's why He did it for us! OTOH, reading John's list of today's saints, some people sure did go the extra mile in the suffering department (I guess that's why they're saints ;-) ). Anyway, maybe the summary I should take home is just "don't be lazy (about salvation)". "don't be lazy" btw is my usual apply-to-most-things message to myself.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), November 30, 2001.


You pose a hard question, Frank. Hard and yet typical. The answer is in your own heart, ultimately. You may still be searching. Or you may feel certain anxieties, like many saints have. But in essence, the life of a believer is really elementary. You become more like Christ if you enjoy His presence, and His grace. No matter what your station in life.

I have to think virtue by itself is insufficient. God's grace makes it sufficient. It's a formal teaching of the Catholic Church that without sanctifying grace, no act at all has merit in the eyes of God. Nothing. Jesus Crist's holy Death, His Resurrection gained us all sanctifying grace. Once you have that, your salvation is in fact assured. Because everything you do, if you work as a watchmaker or as a coal-miner-- is given merit by the grace of Jesus Christ! Merit as if nothing could be holier!

Conversely, if our grace is lost through mortal sin-- here's where the non-Catholic misses the boat --We could be saving lives in a cancer ward. It would not have merit at all, lacking that grace. Naturally, there are higher callings. But it has to be remembered God is not a respecter of persons. His grace is given freely to the humblest laborer. The little shepherds of Fatima had a calling. To be shepherds --and love God and His Blessed Mother. They were true to it. Then they were, in fact, purified through temporal suffering. But look at their places in heaven now! They could barely read! With all respect to your examples, we are usually over-worried about our personal contributions to the Gospel, when we really don't amount to much. No vocation is holy at all, without a holy person following it.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), November 30, 2001.



Frank,

Oh, I see what you're asking, and it is a good one indeed. First off, I think you're right that many, if not most, of us are far too comfortable in our luxury and not anywhere near God's will for us. It is an eternal and constant challenge for each of us. The fact that you are asking God "am I doing what you have called me to do" is the beginning. You want to please God and do His will for your life. The best place to start is Romans 12:1, to offer yourself a living sacrifice to God to be used in any way He would like - dying to self will and asking for God's will. Then watch out. New doors will start to open as you pray that prayer over time and it's meaning permeates your soul. As the doors to service open, you'll sense a holy compulsion to walk through them and begin to move in what God is doing in your life. Making that prayer a daily consecration is the beginning of finding and obeying God's will for your life.

I'm not sure anyone truly KNOWS whether or not they are fully in God's will at any specific time. I think it's just something that we submit to each day of our lives and pray that we are a pleasing sacrifice to God. It is the humble attitude, the willing sacrifice, and the obedient spirit that pleases God I believe.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), November 30, 2001.


Frank,

If I were to make a guess, I would say you do a fine job. You make your own sacrifices in life. You send your children to Catholic schools, and I am sure that is somewhat of a sacrifice. You do good work on this forum, and that is doing well with your time.

I look at life as "Block of time", and no two men will be judged alike.

I don't think it matters what you "have", but I think it matters what you do with what you "have".

I think the readings from the Mass on 11/21, explain this to perfection, and Jesus, is the one who used this parable, LK 19,11-28

God Bless You.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), November 30, 2001.


Frank,

I did not say this, but sometimes Our sacrifices are put on us, and they are our scariest nightmare. As long as we offer the suffering up, it is not wasted suffering. We can offer anything up to Our Father, because He loves us so much.

Our Blessed Mother was not promised, that Her earthly life would be easy.You can say a Prayer Frank, that all the Mass's said in world will go towards your prayers. You can benefit from all the HOLY Sacrifices of the Mass in the world.

God Bless You.

David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), December 01, 2001.


Pray for God's will throughout the day.
Chew your food well.
Sing a happy song.
Seek to serve those in need.
Inventory at the end of the day.
Promptly admit when you are wrong and forgive those who may have harmed you.
Give thanks for the glorious gift of life.
Sleep well.

I wished it was that easy!!

Love , Chris

-- Chris Coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), December 01, 2001.


Chris--
Sleeping well, singing the song and praying God's will be done are like second nature to me. These are the good part of life. I would add something to your Admit when You're Wrong staple; and it's this: Cancel your own Feelings; and Make of them an immolation to Our Lord in all circumstances.

Life is too short to be wasted on hurt feelings, pride or resentment. It's love of Self that often separates us from Jesus Christ and our neighbor.

Right now our friend Chris Butler is afflicted and suffering. I think he has already sacrificed the other staples in our list for the one he loves above all: God's Will be done. I'm praying for him, and I hope you and all the others do too.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), December 01, 2001.



Gene,
I've been giving your suggestion some serious consideration since I read it. As you may know, I've had a life long affliction that my entire family has suffered from and all but a couple have died from. I'm the first to have been relieved of active alcoholism and it was surely in the nick of time. Since my gift of desperation, I have used the suggestions of a program which returns many of us the first places where we may have found God. It's been a rocky road but each day I become closer to what I was seeking as a kid.
A condition of alcoholism is a progressive retreat or spiral into the self. It is a very dangerous and dark desent. Because while in this condition the brain is simultaneously addled by the booze. Reality and clear thinking is replaced by confusion and delusion, resulting in what appears to be extreme self-centeredness or narsissm. It is a nasty chain of events.
So you might think that if you take away the alcohol that recovery might be pretty quick and it may be for some but I've heard it said that, "if it's 10 miles into the woods, it's ten miles out." I believe this to be true for most of us, especially the more chronic and those who have messed with drugs.
As you have noticed (and pointed out) there is a lot of that in my style of corresponding here. So, your last message got me to thinking. It may be necessary to take a little venture off the beaten path. It may be time in the evolution of recovery to take a step as you suggest. It is no big deal what you suggest but be sure that it does not come natural to me. It would take conscious effort to do what you suggest, at least in the begining. And then, as you point out, it becomes as natural as getting a good night's rest. It did take years, good guidance from some other people and little steps to begin to be able to separate my will from God's and in the begining (some 14 years ago)it was a very foreign concept.
Thanks for the suggestion. It is exciting to me to receive and try out a spiritual prescription and this one makes lots of sense today. They say, "When the student is ready the teacher appears." I hope you are taking note John. G. LOL.
Chris

-- Chris Coose (ccoose@maine.rr.com), December 02, 2001.

Chris,
This is the beginning of the season of Advent. What better moment for a new start; a positive start. I take heart as well, from your positive attitude here. It inspires me to practice what I preach. Let's realize that not all personalities are alike. I may be phlegmatic, you might be more sensitive. We must allow for this.

How? We can see how Jesus Christ took no offense, as the only-begotten Son of God, against the people of Bethlehem. In the moments when He was ready to enter this world, all of them turned Him, His Holy Mother, and His foster-father saint Joseph away; they ignored the needs of the Holy family. To us, this is lese majeste, an affront to His most Sacred Heart. He was born in a stable, and never murmurred any sign of His indignation. And we know Jesus wasn't phlegmatic. But He gave us this glorious example. Let's try to follow it out of love for Him. God bless you, Chris.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), December 02, 2001.


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