Emanuel, it’s not so much what you wrote in your last post that caught my eye as much as when I noticed what your name is: Emanuel - “God with us”. With a name like Emanuel surely you must have read the Bible. You have made 12 definitive statements in your most recent comment (How is Mary the mother of GOD?) and yet, you have not supplied a single shred of proof, evidence or argument to support even one of your statements. Emanuel, it sounds to me like you have been listening to too many preachers and not asking enough questions. Any faith, if it is faith revealed by God and implemented as He has directed, can stand the test of challenge, the test of time, and the test of true "fruit".

I will choose one statement you have made and place an argument before you clearly showing where you are in error. I would appreciate you doing the same should you choose to reply.

Let’s take your comment about the saints. You said, “Your catholic saints r just normal human beings.How can u ask the dead to pray for u.” Emanuel, Holy Scripture tells us that we can pray for one another including those who have passed on. Scripture also tell us there is great power prayer and that God listens to our prayer intently and it can affect his decisions to intercede in our lives and in the lives of others. Without others our prayer has no power. Jesus’ power comes from those who love Him, not from within. Remember what Jesus said when the woman touched His garment” “Who touched me? I felt power leave me!” (Mark 5:30) St. Paul says, we fill up what is lacking in the person of Jesus. We augment in our suffering and prayer what He could not suffer because of His divinity. It is only with us that Jesus’ miracle of salvation is accomplished. If you didn’t exist, what would it matter how powerful Jesus was? It is our reciprocating love that gives full meaning to the resurrection. God and man cannot exist without each other. That is why God created us. If we cannot pray or suffer for one another and for our Saviour, then Jesus has no power to save us on His merits alone. That is why you can never be “once saved, always saved”. We must be active participants in our destiny and in each other’s destinies, both in this world and in the next. The Communion of Saints then, is a spiritual union of those on earth, the souls in Purgatory, and the Saints in Heaven as the Body of Christ with Jesus as it’s head. To reject this fact is to reject the very reason God created us. “To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours...” (1 Cor. 1:2)

This holy union in and of itself implies a dependence on one another and a variety of inter-relationships. Any person who believes in God must surely be able to recognize the spiritual oneness we have in common with Him. All the Catholic Church has done is to formally recognize this oneness and give it a name, ie. Communion of Saints. Matthew admonishes us to love our neighbour (Matt. 8:31). Why would we have to love others if God alone is our salvation? The reason is clear. We need one another to fulfill God’s plan. We are in this together, it’s a fellowship “that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you may have fellowship with us; and our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.” (1 John 1:3) Remember, we are the branches, Jesus is the vine. A tree cannot grow with just one branch, it needs the entire network of branches to draw from the elements the nutrients it needs to survive and flourish. (John XV)

St. Paul makes many references to the mystical body of Christ and its members (Col 1:18) who derives its power from acts of love and charity toward others (Eph. 4:16) including those who have gone on ahead of us (Eph. 1:20) (Heb. 12:22). In fact, St. Paul tells us that we are so tied to one another that we can be found in each other “so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.” (Rom. 12:5) We share in the same blessings, not separate similar ones, (1 Cor. 12:13) and we share in prayers, “Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints,” (Eph. 6:18) and through our love and acts of charity, through our good works for each other and for Christ, we edify the entire Body of Christ “from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every joint with which it is supplied, when each part is working properly, makes bodily growth and upbuilds itself in love.” (Eph. 4:16).

While it is important to realize that Catholics do pray directly to God; sometimes however, they rely on the community of believers to bring their petitions before God. They rely on those here on earth as well as those who have passed on to assist in their petitions to the Father. This can be most beneficial when we are at our weakest and unable or incapable of praying for ourselves.

As for praying to the Saints, the Church believes in a "Communion of Saints" both living and dead. Scripture is full of references outlining the role saints can play in both our daily lives and the lives of those in Purgatory. In 2 Thessalonians 3:1-2 Paul asks his fellow Christians to intercede for him, "pray for us.. that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men..." In Romans 15:30-32 "strive together with me in your prayers to God on my behalf... that I may be delivered from the unbelievers... and that my service for Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints" is another clear reference to an association of holy souls with a definite role to play. Revelation 8:3-4 leaves no doubt of the power of prayer of "holy ones" (an accepted Catholic definition of the word - saints). "Another angel came in holding a censer of gold. He took his place at the altar of incense, and was given large amounts of incense to deposit on the altar of gold in front of the throne, together with the prayers of all God's holy ones!"

I will detail a few more Bible passages of the many that are available which confirm and reaffirm the Church’s declaration of the existence of the Communion of Saints and of the very important role it plays in salvation as the mystical Body of Christ.

Mark 12:25-27 - When they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but they are like the angels in heaven. As for the dead being raised, have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God told him, 'I am the God of Abraham, (the) God of Isaac, and (the) God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead but of the living. You are greatly misled."

John 15:1-8 - I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine dresser. Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already made clean by the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you. By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples.

Romans 8:38-39 - For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Tobit 12:14-15 - I was sent to put you to the test. At the same time, however, God commissioned me to heal you and your daughter-in-law Sarah. I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who enter and serve before the Glory of the Lord."

Luke 20:34-38 - And Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage; but those who are accounted worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die any more, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living; for all live to him."

Hebrews 12:22-23 - But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Rev. 5:8 - And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints

Emanuel, need I supply you with any more scriptural references confirming the existence of the Communion of Saints? Is it not glaringly obvious that Jesus intended for us to play an equal, reciprocal part in our love relationship with him and with others? Has the adage, "There are strength in numbers" never rang truer? If I am in error in any of what I have said, then I would truly appreciate being enlightened; but please, next time be sure to include substantiating evidence for any claims you make.

St. James and Mary Our Blessed Mother, as part of the Communion of Saints, ask all others to pray for us!

Ed

-- Ed Lauzon (grader@accglobal.net), November 28, 2001

Answers

Ed, Good Job. David S

-- David S (asdzxc8176@aol.com), November 28, 2001.

Thanks, Ed. Perhaps you will have an article published one day!
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.