Hi everyone,

I have been reflecting for a rather long time and had some rather fascinating thoughts. I saw the preview for the new Soderbergh's film Ocean's Eleven and was pleasantly surprised at the beautiful use of depth of field in the shots alone.

Lately as I have been picking up photographic techniques, my focus on watching movies hasn't been the same. I tend to look at the depth of field during conversations when characters talk to each other and look at color contrasts especially in the foreign films where landscapes tend to be portrayed.

So, the question, which cinematographers have a very good photographer's sense in terms of aesthetics? Any favorite directors who have a strong visual sense from which one can take home lessons about photographic technique?

I remember how influential David Lean has been on my photographic vision. Switch a lot between shooting wide for paranomic shots and shoot narrow for solid close-ups. Also I love how David Lean used Leica cameras to make the test shots for his films as well as for press releases rather than the typical Blad outfit.

I would love to hear the input of other photographers who found movies as an inspiration for visual style and aesthetic approaches.

sincerely, Alfie

-- Alfie Wang (leica_phile@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001

Answers

I believe Stanley Kubrick was a still photographer before he went into the movie business.

-- Chris Chen (furcafe@cris.com), November 26, 2001.

I studied cinematography for a while. I look at everything photographic for inspiration, and that includes movie work. Sometimes I see a film a few times, once to appreciate the film and the rest to analyze the scenes, shots, etc.

There are lessons to be learned from all of it.

-- Godfrey (ramarren@bayarea.net), November 26, 2001.

Kubrick worked for "Look" magazine. See the Internet Movie Database mini-bio: http://us.imdb.com/Bio?Kubrick,+Stanley

-- Chris Chen (furcafe@cris.com), November 26, 2001.

There was an article recently in Aperture about Vittorio Storaro. Does anyone remember seeing it? I ask because:

a) I'm not sure if it was in Aperture

b) I'm not sure if it was about Vittorio Storaro.

Great, huh?

Storaro was the cinematographer of Apocalypse Now. After seeing that movie recently, I'd love to read the article again. There was several times during the movie that I thought "What a wonderful shot" - a still of it would have been impressive. But it's more impressive when you consider that there are 27 frames each second (or something like that) and he's trying to coordinate great shots in the context of so much movement. FYI, for folks who are familiar with that movie, it was a scene shortly after Colonel Kilgore's group has landed on the beach. The camera is facing the church and a donkey is being lifted by helicopter. Hmm...you'd have to be really familiar with the movie to know what I'm talking about but, regardless, it's an amazing shot and really stayed in my mind.

Regards,
Fergus

-- Fergus Hammond (fhammond@adobe.com), November 26, 2001.

Alfie - THIS is an extremley interesting and original question. Some thoughts: The wonderful 'black and whiteness' of Schindler's List, the 'space' that Sergio Leone created and the close-up documentry feel of 'Twelve Angry Men'. The list of inspirational movies is surely endless?

-- Giles Poilu (giles@monpoilu.icom43.net), November 26, 2001.

Opps; I should have done more searching:

http://s hop.store.yahoo.com/aperture/aperture163.html

-- Fergus Hammond (fhammond@adobe.com), November 26, 2001.

I believe Zhang yimou , one of the great "5th wave" Chinese directors who did a number of visually compelling movies , started out his artistic life as a still photographer. Possibly Chen Kaige, one of his cohorts, as well.

A similar thread about great cinematography was started not too long ago. Can't seem to find it at the moment.

-- Tse-Sung (tsesung@yahoo.com), November 26, 2001.

As mentioned above, Kubrick's work is a good example of how photographic expertise can influence cinematography (and perhaps vice versa). There's an interesting article here:

http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/sk/ac/len/page1.htm

about how he had a Zeiss 50mm f/0.7 (!) still camera lens (originally designed for NASA) adapted to shoot by candlelight in 'Barry Lyndon'. The combination of light source, push-processing, and virtually non-existent depth of field produce a really striking effect.

-- Richard Williams (richardw@icr.ac.uk), November 26, 2001.

Alfie:

The short answer to the title of your post is "yes".

I'll also point out that you've answered your own question: you've learned from Soderberg and David Lean.

The director's vision is important to the "look" of the film; not just the director of photography (DP).

The first DP to be lionized by the film industry was James Wong Howe. Study his work for black and white skills. These will old pictures you can score at Blockbuster. He did a bit of color work, too, e.g. the sequel to Funny Girl: called Funny Lady. But it's his B&W stuff that shines.

Virtually any DP is worth studying. Almost all are highly gifted. By the time somebody is willing to risk $60 million on you, you gotta be good! Actually they study each other. The planning for a new movie often starts out with something like "Remember Lean's shot of Omar Shariff coming over the sand dune in Doctor Zhivago? The one he oredered that special lens from Baush & Lomb, just for that shot? Well, why don't we . . ."

How do I know all this? Alfie, get yourself a subscription to The American Cinematographer.

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), November 26, 2001.

I learned how to see in black & white from watching old movies. My biggest influence was Orsen Wells "A Touch of Evil", the greatest film shot in B&W, IMHO. I once sat through most of a Bogart film festival in NYC that lasted 2 double features per evening for almost a month and after that I only saw b&w!

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), November 26, 2001.

And be sure to track down a copy of "Visions of Light," the Oscar- winning documentary made about 10 years ago about many of the great cinematographers and how they work(ed).

-- Chuck Albertson (chucko@siteconnect.com), November 26, 2001.

Alfie, check this out:

James Wong Howe

-- Bob Fleischman (RFXMAIL@prodigy.net), November 26, 2001.

HCB worked for a while as an assitant director for Jean Renior. It was his ambition to make movies. I assume he learned something from the experience.

-- jeff schraeder (jeff@circlesofclarity.com), November 26, 2001.

Anyone ever seen h1>Three Kings
-- Scott (scottevans@mediaone.net), November 26, 2001.

Actually I feel rather embarrassed that I didn't mention Kubrick's movie as being my favorite photographer (in that sense of the word) especially my personal favorite Barry Lyndon. The color of the film is so beautiful both in sharp and diffuse light. I remember the dueling pistol sense very well with its strange and foreign contrast which tantalizes me to this very day.

Just came back from the movie "Sidewalks of New York." Nice flick although very few shots were memorable except the out of focus twin towers w/ Ed Burns shots.

-- Albert Wang (leica_phile@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

There was a thread on this forum a few weeks ago on this same subject and I mentioned Barry Lyndon by Kubrick, where he developed lenses for the flare and Bokeh, although that term was not trendy then. Many of the indoor scenes were shot exclusively by candleight to capture the ambiance of pre-electric light ballrooms and special lenses were needed. Note also the sun-rain-cloud outdoor scenes -stunning!! For a real treat, see the recent-5 yr old- features by the Chinese director (sorry forgot his name, even tho I saw it last week)- Red Lanterns or something like that. Every shot in the movie could be a museum still on it's own. Another beautiful current piece of work is All the Pretty Horses, with Matt Damon -just as good visually as Cormack McCarthy's novel is as literature. As I said in the other thread, how many of us sketch out every shot we make on a storyboard and set it all up and rehearse it for hours before-hand, or make 50 checks of light in every part of the scene to get just the desired highlight and shadow interplay?

Even as far back as the 20s, the DOPs were mastering the art: revisit Charlie Chaplin's Modern Times or Goldrush.

Then there is the all-time master Hitchcock: Rear Window, Vertigo, (Kim Novak didn't detract from the overall effect erther) North by North West, and of course Psycho all depended on effective settings. The scene were detective Arbogast was killed on the stairs transcends all that came before it for effect. The Birds used multiple matte shots that would do Lucas proud, way before computers.

So much to learn from them.

Cheers

AND!!! Do not forget the cartoons of the 40s and 50s- golden age with Looney Tunes etc. They were wonderful at minimalist scene-setting, as each frame was a separate still image in itself.

Paul Strand was DOP on several movies which because of their political content were as much as banned but still are masterpieces of cinema/still art.

My presonal recent favourite is SE7EN, and I Must heartily endorse seeing Visions of Light-Great.

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richard.ilomaki@fmglobal.com), November 27, 2001.

Well, I was a DOP. And I still am a film director.

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), November 27, 2001.

To make this a full answer (at least to your headline): while watching inspires (a lot!), it's the practice that betters your skills. Cheers.

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), November 27, 2001.

Richard, The title is "Raise the Red Lantern". Another by the same director, and I assume same DP, is "Farewell My Concubine". Both are required viewing.

-- Steve Wiley (wiley@accesshub.net), November 27, 2001.

I can't believe that no one has mentioned "Sleepy Hollow" or "O Brother Where Art Thou", both of which are pure eye-candy.

-- Ron Buchanan (ronb@fusive.com), November 27, 2001.

Terence Malick's 1978 movie "Day's of Heaven", one of the most visually beautiful movies I have ever seen. Scenes set up like paintings, spectacular use of light, beautiful. Incredible photography. Margaret

-- Margaret (fitz@neptune.fr), November 27, 2001.

On visiting USA I must say I am most impressed with cinematography on your television commercials. Fabulous. Many of this are so beautifully and effectively filmed; they cause me to desire objects for which I have no need. Second would be videos and third would be films.

-- Emmanuelle LeBoutillier (earsan@yahoo.fr), November 27, 2001.

When I was 19 i started work at a cinema, at 20 I bought my first SLR, at 21 I started night school, at 22 I started at university studying photography, at 23 I bought a Leica.

it all began with the cinema, when i think of where i learnt most of my education of composition I think back to the cinema.

p.s. don't forget to credit the Dir. of Photography and the Lighting men too, they do all the hard work!!!

-- Philip Woodcock (phil@pushbar.demon.co.uk), November 27, 2001.

C'mon Lutz, don't tease us. Tell us more :-)

How does the first way of seeing influence the second, or how does it translate?

-- Mani Sitaraman (bindumani@pacific.net.sg), November 28, 2001.

I found Soderbergh's Traffic very inspiring, along with Winterreise (the book) in their use/acceptance of horrid light. Of course many photographers have been inspired by Blow Up: boss women about and sneak around in parks and your success as a snapper is assured.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), November 28, 2001.

Another personal inspiration: Satyajit Ray's films, their unspectacular, understated intimacy and directness.

-- rob (rob@robertappleby.com), November 28, 2001.

Mani,

C'mon Lutz, don't tease us. Tell us more :-) How much more? Hastily typing these lines while preparing to continue my course on blocking and staging and camera styles here, at the Filmakademie Baden-Wuerttemberg in Germany, I wonder how thick the book might be I could fill on this subject... I'm a regular educator in that field, too, which compliments my professional life as a film maker. For just a glimpse (basically in German, however, with some information in English) have a look at my homepage .

But we might pick up one aspect to start with:

< I>How does the first way of seeing influence the second, or how does it translate?

Hmm... Could you please break this down again. Do you mean, how does cinematographic experience translate to photograhic experience? For me, biographically speaking, it started the other way round...

Cheers.

-- Lutz Konermann (lutz@konermann.net), November 28, 2001.

This question, Alfie, also leads right into the very beginning of the LEICA. Didnīt BARNACK construct a kind of lightmeter for a filmcamera in the first place? The 24/ 35 mm filmsize is, as we of course all know, double the size of the initial 18/ 24 mm film frame.

Taking photographs with a LEICA M is still a bit like shooting along a filmscene. I usually take a series of photographs and choose the ones which I like best. With the LEICA R I take fewer shots and usually I allow for far more time to compose before I press the release.

This ability of the BARNACKLEICA shooting a kind of a filmsequence was a big advantage over the then dominating big format cameras (with 8/12 cm negs) and it was the main reason for the quick success of the LEICA in the 20ies.

The LEICA for still photographs has then accompanied filmmaking for centuries.

As far as visual style goes I like films directed by Eisenstein, Tarkowski, Kubrick ...

Best wishes

-- K. G. Wolf (k.g.wolf@web.de), November 28, 2001.

... Rainer Herzog, Wim Wenders ...

Godd shooting

-- K. G. Wolf (k.g.wolf@web.de), November 28, 2001.